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mhagain

Member Since 06 Jun 2010
Online Last Active Today, 04:18 AM

Posts I've Made

In Topic: Vulkan is Next-Gen OpenGL

03 March 2015 - 04:41 PM

Yes, it probably should stop, but two more points are relevant.

 

First one is the evidence being that the worst damage was done to OpenGL after Microsoft's departure.  I'm talking about 2.0 and Longs Peak here.  That's relevant because they represent the previous two times that the ARB had tried, and failed, to redesign a modernized OpenGL.

 

Second one is the story of ARB_occlusion_query.  The story is here but in summary: it's odd that QUERY_COUNTER_BITS_ARB was allowed to be 0, and it turns out that the reason why was so that Intel could advertise support for the extension but without actually having to really support it.  That's a classic example of the kind of madness that infected OpenGL's evolution (and note that Microsoft weren't involved here either) and it's exactly the kind of thing we'd like to see avoided in Vulkan.

 

I remain cautiously optimistic; it's quite notable that there is a significant number of game developers on the board this time around, rather than just hardware technicians, so the resulting API will at least stand a better chance of being something that matches well with what the people who are going to be using it actually want.


In Topic: Vulkan is Next-Gen OpenGL

03 March 2015 - 02:31 PM

I was trying to bring up the fact that some people believe that Microsoft sabotaged the OpenGL implementation on Windows to increase DirectX adoption. And whether Microsoft will allow Vulkan and Mantle to be first-class citizens with DX12 (if it's even possible) and whether Microsoft will keep their open-source friendly ways up (like Promit mentioned).

 

IIRC, Apple has to explicitly allow support for new APIs because they write their own drivers. So "it just works" isn't always possible.

 

The story I heard was that the Windows NT team had OpenGL because they wanted to break into the CAD workstation market.  The Windows 95 team wanted OpenGL for games, the NT team wouldn't play ball, and hence DirectX (or more specifically Direct3D because DirectX already existed) was born.  If that was the case, any sabotage was internal.  If you've ever had to deal with Microsoft in a professional capacity that's perfectly believable.

 

As for open-source friendliness, it hardly seems relevant; it was never the case that OpenGL was open-source (it's not even software so it can't be).


In Topic: Vulkan is Next-Gen OpenGL

03 March 2015 - 09:20 AM

why should someone want to use D3D12 ?

 

The reason to prefer D3D has always been more robust drivers and better tools on an API that hits ~95% of the target market.  That's it.  Preference for one vendor or one platform comes nowhere into it, nor do any malicious backdoor shenanigans.  The D3D driver model was simply a better driver model that, once the emotional aspect of the original API war burned out, became obvious to everyone that it allowed for this to happen.  But that's also the hurdle that Vulkan now has to get over (and Khronos are making the right kind of noises about this, which is encouraging).

 

Right now Vulkan seems to have a head-start, and if we can get a spec, sample apps, some functional tools and reasonable drivers from all 3 desktop vendors by SIGGRAPH, it should eat D3D 12.

 

On the other hand if Khronos stall or if the vendors fail to deliver then D3D 12 will have a chance to jump back ahead.

 

Either way the next year is going to be interesting. biggrin.png


In Topic: Vulkan is Next-Gen OpenGL

03 March 2015 - 05:58 AM

This is all pretty damn awesome.  If the driver support is there too, then D3D12 is dead in the water for me.


In Topic: Next-Gen OpenGL To Be Shown Off Next Month

03 March 2015 - 04:14 AM

 


Rumour has it that D3D12 will run on all hardware that D3D11 runs on,
Except for non GCN AMD hardware AFAIK, which leaves two generations of D3D11 hardware (and more than a few rebranded older chips) out of the loop : /

 

 

My understanding is that the full D3D 12 feature set will only be available on GCN hardware for AMD, but (and provided AMD write a D3D 12 driver) there's no reason why a lower feature level can't be used on lower-end hardware.

 

This is similar to the way D3D 11 can run on D3D 10 or even D3D 9 class hardware provided a driver exists.


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