timothyjlaird

This all helped a great deal, i believe i will start learning c# and python

thank you guys for the help

on the languages note, are there any recommended books to pick up for c#/python?

For a grounding in C# the Deitel series is not bad. Although it may be like drinking water out of fire hose for a beginner. I would look at some online tutorials first. Once you know what you are looking for then maybe spend $50 on a book.

If you do choose c# as a first language and master some of the basics (and still want to pursue gamedev) I would recommend Learning XNA 4.0 by Aaron Reed (O'Rielly Series). Once you get further into the book it slowly introduces some basic concepts of object oriented programming and gives you practical reasons to use them with XNA...as opposed to just handing you raw theory. That said...the book's coverage of HLSL (and 3d as it applies to XNA) is a bit shallow, so you should not expect to be an expert on XNA or anything, but it will give a starting point.

The only thing that even comes close to "no programming" is Unity 3d. Per the website $1900(unity pro+android basic) or $3000(unity pro+android pro) is available. You'll still be scripting at a bare minimum...and if you don't want to program I doubt you'll get anywhere with scripting. Why are you here then?

Also, android game development isn't the best place to start. You don't even really have control over the life of the program...you just react. For example, if the user tilts the screen you have to drop everything you are doing, save the state before the OS kills your program, then you have to reload everything from state once it starts back up again.

Android life cycle...
http://developer.android.com/guide/components/activities.html

Figure it out for yourself...

Take some time and install VS2010 Express for c# and c++...all the tools that you need at this point are free. Make your goal drawing a single triangle in a window. First complete the task in c#, then in C++. Leverage the XNA (c#) and DirectX (c++) APIs/toolkits to do the drawing. Tutorials for this sort of thing are spammed all over the place. Just do some research with Google.

Get that far and you be able to ask much more specific, intelligent questions on which language and api/toolkit to learn more about.

$100 is a drop in the bucket...It's a token amount to sort out people who are not serious...

Maybe I'm stating the obvious but if I was teaching kids my first priority would be to get them to understand the concept of OOP (mainly inheritance).

That is a terriible terrible idea,

I have to second this.
As a kid I got started with BASIC.
The cool thing about basic is that you don't even need functions.

Your average 12 year old does not understand:
1. If statements
2. Functions
3. Loops
4. Variable Typing
4a. Variable declaration
5. Splitting code into different modules etc...
...

BASIC did not require any of these concepts to generate a cool result.
As a kid, easy success is a great motivator.

Since basic does not really exist anymore (Visual basic is more like C# / Java),
I am thinking one might think of toying around with java-script as a first language.
It does not require any of the above (you can even use undeclared variables in global scope).
It might actually be useful for the kids later.

Little by little you can add the more complicated concepts listed above.

The downside is And there are no easy input functions such as  getch() or scanf(), and the javascript canvas is as complicated as any GDI library.


But I don't know any language with a graphics library as simple as basic:
SCREEN 13
COLOR RED
DRAW "r5 d5 l5 u5"

Regarding OOP specifically:
It is not a "Holy" concept.
As someone who learnt to program before good C++ compilers were available for home development, you can do a-lot without OOP,
Teaching it as the only way of programming is major mistake universities make today.
It causes programmers to believe that over-designing is a goal in itself.

A lot of what you just said makes me cringe...though I have already tried to make my point and I will move on.

However...BASIC is not quite dead. Blitz3D uses a bastardized form of BASIC. Unfortunately the license costs $60 and it requires DirectX (version 7 I think). I did not mention it before since the person who was starting the thread does not have the resources (money and decent video cards) to leverage it. I bought a license a few years back and developed a simple game on it. It is great for learning the fundamentals of working in 3d graphics and some people have made some really cool stuff with it. I stopped using it because the code became very difficult to extend and maintain. If you want to try it or any of their other products, see here:

http://www.blitzbasic.com/

Maybe I'm stating the obvious but if I was teaching kids my first priority would be to get them to understand the concept of OOP (mainly inheritance).

That is a terriible terrible idea, and probably the reason why so many beginners tend to create complex class hierarchies even in the most trivial situations, and even though it doesn't buy them anything. Inheritance should be used about as often as function pointers are used in C programming, and for about the same purpose (multiple dispatch).

Did you even bother to read the rest of what I wrote? If you are going to quote me, quote the whole thought not just the section that you want to harp on. What I was suggesting was to let them write code without OOP until it becomes unmanageable for them. Then give them the extra tools as a solution.

Are you saying that there are no other benefits? Like code that documents itself? Or avoiding copy-pasting to implement similar but subtle differences in logic? How about code that can actually be tested in bits and pieces (components) rather than the whole damn thing at the same time?

The problem with making an MMO (and other modern 3d games) is not so much the programming as all the damn artwork you need. I don't understand why you would penny-pinch on an engine ($100 or $200 for the license) when you need to spend >$3000 for tools to make professional artwork (3D Studio Max or Maya and Photoshop). Sure, you may be able to do it in Blender...good luck with that on the scale you would need for an MMO...

I would try out SDL. It should work on a Mac OS X. See here: http://wiki.libsdl.org/moin.cgi/FAQMacOSX

It's a good framework for 2D games that can be extended with other libraries to 3D if you so desire. You can get more information here: http://www.libsdl.org/

Also, it is much easier to understand what you are trying to ask when you put each thought in its own sentence and drop a newline in-between them.

The only thing I can say is to concentrate on the math courses...calculus, linear algebra, parts of discrete math in addition to programming. As a CIS major I sidestepped some of the more math intensive courses and it's making shader programming a bit difficult because I'm having to relearn some of the stuff I glossed over in college.

Also, I would recommend a CS degree instead of a specialized "game development" degree. It's a lot more portable, and the way the economy is you may not get a game dev job right out of the gate. Also, I would strongly recommend doing your own side projects (not necessarily connected to school)...if you can do some really cool stuff on your own it'll be easier to get a job after college.

Another thing...don't fixate on what school to get into. Things change so fast in the software dev world that you'll have to learn to teach yourself and experiment in order to keep moving anyway. College is just the beginning...and the instructors are really there just to guide you along and give you a sort of safety net. The real world is much less forgiving.

Hope some of what I said makes sense...good luck.

Well you need a grounding in object oriented programming and algebra (linear algebra if you want to go 3d) to really get anywhere. Probably the most obvious route is the c# language with the XNA toolkit. If you are impatient, you can try Blitz3d...which is a like BASIC but with some hacky object oriented mechanics thrown in. It's a shortcut to 3d graphics but you'll reach the limits pretty fast. Probably the best thing you can do is teach yourself how to do research...99% of the time someone else has confronted with the same problem.

Hello everyone, my name is obviously Ageshero, And i have an extremely bad habbit of biting off way more than i could ever chew.

Go easy on me, dont use fancy words(cause you are smarter than to waste that kind of time on me, haha.) No crazy lingo that anyone outside your hobby could ever understand, and if you going to use it,  tell me what it means.(Also,  there's a whole load of elitist jerks that keep pointing out some how, no matter how i write, that my post is a wall of letters, Get the hell over it okay? Hahahaha.)

Okay, So here is the point,  i want to make a 2D Action/Adventure/ RPG  video game, Top down probably. I'm aware of engines like Gamemaker, but it seems a bit annoying... and i don't know if its what i want.
I have no Coding or programing experience,  lets even assume that i don't even know what that is.

I'm sure there are plenty of problems to have to work through as i go on with the project that i want,   It's probably going to be a pc only game, though getting it to work as a homebrew title for some random device would be absolutely wonderful.

I've pretty much got my head wrapped well around the aspects of Art, pixels, Animation, and im working on getting a fluid work flow and understanding music composition programs and sound effects for a classic feel, being a painter and general character artist etc, and also a musician, im ontop of that.

_

So what i need is some sources on what i should do to start learning how i would make a game.  Or a really stretchy game engine that will let me do whatever i want ( Anything that is more flexible than RPGMAKERVX which is seems pretty limited and feels like i havent made my own game at all in any way.   And might be the same if not easier than GAMEMAKER)

If i find that game maker is really what i want, what  am i able and not able to do inside of this.   I dont want  "THIS GAME WAS MADE WITH GAMEMAKER" slapped on to some poorly designed and ugly loading screen. I figure theres probably a way to remove it.

So basically in the end im asking if there are any programs i should be aware that will help me make my game, but not take the development abilities away from me.

I want to be able to make cutscenes, and interesting title screens and things.  If anyone has some help of any kind, please  throw it at me.

Earthbound is the best example, a game pretty similar to the style and function of what i want.
(info like,  how on earth did they make things Flash, move, animate, The crazy little background motion effects)

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Another little bit of info,  If gamemaker is my option, I want to make it look like game maker was never even there. I dont want framerate Defying smooth motions that destract entirely from the pixelly style of the game either.
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Hope this wasnt to confusing, any help is appreciated ( im not a rocket scientist, speak english please.)

I tried jumping right into 3d game engines to make games...for a while. Then I realized that I had no clue what was going on in the background, at a lower level. So I started experimenting with OpenGL, and while I'm rather limited (the best I'm doing right now is a textured cube (albiet with VBOs, texture objects, and vertex normals), I understand what is going on.

It's a road less traveled, but you learn a lot more. I would recommend that you write these game ideas down in a binder and then stick it in on the shelf. Work with the basics for a while (the root APIs- OpenGL and DirectX). Then once you are competent in the basics, pull the binder off the shelf. One more thing- almost all successful games of any size (even 2D) are built by a team. Not individuals. Start small.