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Member Since 23 Jun 2012
Offline Last Active Oct 24 2016 11:08 AM

#5286412 Game concept

Posted by on 11 April 2016 - 09:13 PM

It's for children.
It takes place in a rural area.
It involves jumping.
It might be in the wrong forum.


I wish i could give this +10... seriously

#5285377 Critique of my Art

Posted by on 05 April 2016 - 08:54 PM

The normals are looking better but they are "set to face" instead of averaged, so you get the pixely look.

#5284794 Allegorithmic Substance for Non-Artist, Tools for Amping up Graphics?

Posted by on 02 April 2016 - 04:11 PM

Substance's ability to edit in real time is for the editor only, if you make a packaged game Substance's libraries doesn't pack with it, otherwise you would be giving every person a free version of Substance.
I don't know if UBER allows for this, I have never used it.

Have you used the Substance trail and some free models, to see if it works the way you want?


Actually with UE4 this is incorrect. You can edit directly in real time (game) using substance materials. You however, have to already have created the HLSL via Substance Designer. :P And any parameters you are modifying in real time need to be open for edit via Substance Designer. That said, no clue how it works for Unity

#5284776 Critique of my Art

Posted by on 02 April 2016 - 01:11 PM

You know that is like the third time that has happened to me this week. So either people really hate me.... lmao or this is a new epidemic! LMAO Dont worry about it though, little bit of negative never hurt anybody.

#5284617 Allegorithmic Substance for Non-Artist, Tools for Amping up Graphics?

Posted by on 01 April 2016 - 09:39 AM

This is two different posts and should be broken up into as such. One is you talking about your game and advertising it (Goes in a totally different section) The second is the questions. If you are wondering "Well i wanted to give a bit of background so you understood" You could link the other post here at the top and say for reference information. Anyway... now that the ugly is done, onto answering!!


1) Subustance designer/painter is an artists tool. You can not jump into it and make epic things without trying to do "art stuff", however, it is easy to learn and with a short period of time you could easily make something of quality with little to no real art knowledge. It is not meant for making effects such as particles and should in almost no way be used to do so. It has a particle system in it but that is for generating effects on a 3d objects that particles might cause (such as rain dropping on a metal surface which causes the water lines).


2) UBER is honestly a waste of money. Unity already has PBR built into it. You would be doing the same thing you are doing with substance and thats forcing yourself to learn how to make materials for assets. There is no easy answer that gives you epic results for 0 buy in of time and knowledge. It just doesnt exist. Uber says "Best simplified PBR EVER!!" That makes no sense becuase it does the same crap everybody else does. Here is a quick and dirty PBR setup:

  • Diffuse/Albedo - Color ONLY no shadowing details (unless you are making handpainted assets)
  • Specular - Adds light based highlights to an object based off specular properties. (Your face reflrects light when it is really wet, AKA high specular)
  • Roughness - The more rough and object the less light reflects. (A face with lots of poors and no water on it reflects very little light, a face with water on it and smooth skin will look like a fish!)
  • Metallic - How much an object looks like metal. Higher values creates a deeper metal look. (Note specular setups can mimic this, but not well)
  • Normal/Bump Map - This defines in a 2d plane how light reacts to your model. This is used to simulate depth and can be created using a variety of tools

In a PBR setup you would have these maps applied to what is called a material. That material is then applied to your UV mapped model. Simple as that. EVERY SINGLE TOOL, and engine uses this setup. They might have small variations in how its applied but to pay 50$ for something that is already in place in Unity seems foolish. If you need to know more about PBR hit me up and I can teach you and save you the cash.


3) Getting one or the other is silly and moot. The Substance Shader is backed by a big company so if you HAVE to get it than I would go with that. However, keep in mind the only real reason the shader exists is because artists can take the tools "Painter/Designer" and import the substance made materials directly into the project. If you are not doing this than there is no real need for that shader system.


4) No, it doesnt exist. What you pay for is what you get. Here is a link to a previous post where I explain this in detail. http://www.gamedev.net/topic/677500-productivity-of-a-3d-artist/?view=findpost&p=5284333 Can you find an arists who will work with you? Yep, but dont expect it. If it existed we wouldnt have all these games being released with programmer style art :P


5) Not really, you need to find yourself an artist who is willing to work with you and provide you decent rates or you need to learn thist stuff yourself. Doing high polygon photo realstic art is VERY expensive and time consuming. So you need to find somebody who is new to the business and unestalbished looking to make a name for themselves or learn it yourself. That sucks I know, but I am being honest with ya here.


Any other questions let me know. If you are wondering "Who is this guy and what makes him think he knows what he is doing?" I freelance as an artist :), and would argue Im pretty good too! I also use the following tools:


  • Photoshop
  • 3DCoat
  • Zbrush
  • Substance Designer
  • Substance Painter
  • UE4
  • Maya 2016/15/14
  • Quixel (NDO, DDO, and 3DO)

#5284567 Critique of my Art

Posted by on 31 March 2016 - 11:03 PM


Why do the normal maps have so many bumps? we are talking a plane here... This means it should be smooth and only have bumps where rust or dents might have occurred. The current theme makes it look very unrealistic. I will throw together something here in a bit to show you what I am talking about. Also, I am not sure the theme you are wanting to go with but depending it could very much change how much critique can go on. Right now, I would have a few complaints about the style and model choices, but again the attempt you wanted to aim for matters.


I was just trying to put in the panel lines for the plane. Also I just wanted to add more detail to the overall design. The theme I going for is like a SciFi aircraft that in its age is actually quite outdated. I'm probably going to either remove the wing bump maps or try to improve them. Do you think the fuselage bump map should go as well?



The generalized bump map does not work for such things. Metal isnt "generally" bumpy in this manor and certainly in not big clunks like that. If you had rust regions that might make sense for some odd bump maps in that area and then maybe really bumpy areas where the metal starts to peel away. Normals maps have to make sense for your art to look realistic and more believable. However, if the style you wanted was cartoony than its a different matter all together. In any matter, the goal should be to use realistic values and modify them based off of the style you wish to go for. We do the same thing with human anatomy and character models. You dont want to just place some randomized anatomy without any form or function because you think it will "look good", to the human eye it will look off and people will judge the model/character based off of this impression. However, when you work on something that has a purpose or a reason and follows the form of an object the brain will fill in the puzzle pieces automatically and the viewer will not skip a beat or question the choices. To get an idea of what metal looks like when rusted check these out:




Notice the smoothness of the non rusted areas. Painted metal has a VERY small bump map to it, but you shouldnt see this from a far away profile. However, when you get close you could.




Is another example of a normal map that might be found on the metal. notice most of the texture is flat and without variance. In the "dented" areas you have some slight bends and curves but they are rather large and not spread across the entire surface. Even the dents where something hit the metal are deep, precise, and with purpose. Try to aim for this in your bump map and you will really have something. If you are just doing this to learn, you could provide the .fbx here and I wouldnt mind throwing together something for you to look at. Assuming the UV's are not horrible :P I dont like to waste time fixing uv's, but thats just me.

#5284405 Unwrapping similar models to same texture

Posted by on 30 March 2016 - 07:53 PM

Im not sure this will work out like you want. In some ways you will get some odd stretching. If you dont mind that just bake the texture out from the one model with the wireframe as a layer. Import to the new model as a base texture and map your UV's with that as your base. This will help you a lot. You could try what Reto said, but myself I have not used 3d coat to do that. I tried several times and failed....horribly! :P either way, good luck.

#5284333 Productivity of a 3D artist

Posted by on 30 March 2016 - 03:01 PM

So, with freelance you pay for what you get. A good artist can range from 35 - 80$ an hour for their work. Some will work less depending on the project and if they need cash now; while others will hold out and stay true to their pricing model. So lets break down how long it takes to make a generalized model:


3d character model that is 10k polygon or less (semi low poly) would take roughly 3 - 8hrs for a decent modeler. This is assuming you are only blocking out the mesh and not doing any high polygon normal map renders. (this would be making a high poly and then baking that to a normal map on the low poly cage. Making the high poly takes time and adds to the overall cost)


Once complete with the model you will need to UV map it. This can be a fairly long process or a short one depending on the model complexity and the program the artist is using to UV map. If you had somebody who knows what they are doing a simple UV map could take 1 - 5 hrs. If you dont you could take 5 - 15 hours UV mapping depending on the skill of the person and their knowledge of edges and such.


From there you need to take the model into the modeling program again and setup the rig. This process is fairly simple again, so long as you have a simple mesh. Sub 10k poly would probably take anywhere from 2 - 5 hrs for a good artist. After you have created the bones and bound them to the skin you need to add skin weights. This timeframe can change drastically based off of the type of model. Humans are fluid and require a bit of finesse to weight properly. Rigid objects that dont move are fairly simple and easy to skin weight. A general rule of thumb for this is the more polys the more complex, so for argument sake lets say it takes 3hrs to weight it. Once the object has been rigged and weighted you can make the control rig. The control rig is what is used by animators to easily animate the rig and create robust complex set driven keys. You could do this without make a control rig but if you do the complexity of animation down the road compounds. So, setting up the control rig is 1 - 5 hours depending on complexity.


Lets recap some of our time right now:

  • 3-8 hrs - (for a model)
  • 1-5 hrs - (for uv map)
  • 2-5 hrs - (for the rig)
  • 3 hrs - (for the weighting)
  • 1-5 hrs - (for the control rig)

This brings your total to (10 - 26 hrs) depending on the skill level and complexity.


At this point you have 0 work done on the textures and the animations. Assuming everything jives from here on you would need to make the texture. This can be fairly long and depending on the pipeline you are working will take some serious time. A good texture artist can create work in roughly 5 - 10 hours for a basic object. Seriously complex objects would require amplified amounts of time.


As for animations, with a good quality control rig in place you can pump these babies out pretty fast. So unless you required 40 - 50 animations you are looking at a fairly cheap process to create stuff. I personally can block out 5 - 10 animations in 2 hrs depending on the control rig in place. So....


All in all we are talking roughly 15 - 36 hrs of work. At a going rate of $50 an hour your total for an asset fully rigged, animated, and up to industry standard in quality would be ( 750 - 1800 ). Costs will vary depending on complexity and skill of the artist, so take this with a grain of salt.


(EDIT: After reading gian's stuff)

It might be a better idea, depending on the project, to get the pregenerated stuff, but in doing so it is hard for an artist who didnt make it to modify it. Keep that in mind. not all artists are created the same and not all work the same.

#5283814 Critique of my Art

Posted by on 28 March 2016 - 01:09 AM

Clear form, easy to see what it is.

Attractive shapes, easy on the eyes.


It's a clear 3D model, not great, however a good foundation to work with.


Now the criticism:


First is your detail distribution, both the textures and the mesh.

You have large flat wings and tiny over detailed guns. The same problem with textures your wings have large camo spots, and the smaller wings have smaller camo spots.

When making textures you need to match the texel density.


Your bump map looks like a error, instead of a useful texture. I think the model would look better if you just removed it.



Overall not bad for a beginner, you are on the right track.

Why are the small wings attached to the main wings a polygon thick?


Quick Tip:



Learn to up step circles, it helps to keep the detail constant and is a large part of controlling topology.

Most 3D modelers prefer base 4, it helps to keep quads.

Precision modelers and engineers base 3. Some thing to do with dividing a circle in equal parts?


Certain engines only work in tri aswell :P Although I prefer quads.

#5283813 Critique of my Art

Posted by on 28 March 2016 - 01:07 AM

Why do the normal maps have so many bumps? we are talking a plane here... This means it should be smooth and only have bumps where rust or dents might have occurred. The current theme makes it look very unrealistic. I will throw together something here in a bit to show you what I am talking about. Also, I am not sure the theme you are wanting to go with but depending it could very much change how much critique can go on. Right now, I would have a few complaints about the style and model choices, but again the attempt you wanted to aim for matters.

#5283335 BitMap Animation (Help needed)

Posted by on 25 March 2016 - 12:44 AM

GIF or BMP doesnt matter, how the engine you are using renders it does. YOu can make a JPG that has 5000 images on it that will animate, assuming your engine accepts that format. What are you doing with it?

#5265496 Any one using both UE4 and Unity 5?

Posted by on 08 December 2015 - 04:10 PM

Actually, you could host the models on a private store site (there are thousdands of them) that track the number of downloads. BITGEM does this for his assets. You can provide the Unity/Unreal store purchase code to him and he gives you access to download the updated models. Each time he updates the models it clears the download times for you. Pretty nifty system and lets users get the most up to date versions of the models.


Also, I have never had these problems. The only major difference when making models for either engine is the normal map system. One uses a different normal map setup. Everything else is more or less the same you just have to setup your model process. The shaders that are being discussed will modify how your models look but that shouldnt be something you are concerned with. Simply make your models with the proper setup:


  • METAL/SPECULAR (depending on your PBR pipeline)
  • AO


The rest of the maps can be added on a personal choice basis. Unreal has a built in editor that lets you more or less design your own shaders using a UI. Unity had some plugins that let you do this but you have to buy them or try to make them. Either way, the default setup is more or less the same.

#5245296 Learning to create Art - by Riuthamus

Posted by on 09 August 2015 - 02:37 PM

Not really abandoned, just put on a brief hold. I have been very busy with the pending release of my game RV. I also got some big clients that I have been doing some work for with an NDA. On top of that work has been stupid crazy. I must admit I let this slide too long so I need to get one out, but I cant promise any direct timeframe just yet.

#5234711 Learning to create Art - by Riuthamus

Posted by on 14 June 2015 - 01:03 AM

So i made 3 videos. The new material covers:


Shading, Highlights, and the use of light in your art! :P New concepts.

#5234417 Learning to create Art - by Riuthamus

Posted by on 12 June 2015 - 03:15 AM

Series is not over, I updated the most recent video based on the critisim you guys gave. I want to push it out this weekend. I spent more time focusing on the purpose of the technique and putting that into practice than I did on making it short. This should give you guys the stuff you wanted from the last time.