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Krik

Member Since 15 Jul 2012
Offline Last Active Mar 28 2013 03:48 PM
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#4961056 Can I avoid the hassle of these IDE's?

Posted by Krik on 19 July 2012 - 02:48 PM

Your machine is heavily broken and all your fixes are only going to make your life worse. Visual Studio 2010 works with MSBuild 4.0, and shoehorning in 3.5 is just asking for trouble.
Visual Studio is as close as it comes to "It just works" as development tools get, especially one of it's complexity. It sounds like you have a bad .NET install. I would uninstall everything and reinstall Visual Studio from scratch.

Yep did that, twice. The second time I made sure all coresponding folders were removed and I spent about 3 hours manually removing all Visual Studio, MSBuild, and .NET Frame work registry entries I could find. It's amazing even Microsoft doesn't know how to clean the registry (that they made) when you uninstall their software.

Maybe later when I am burnt out form reading up on CMake and makefiles I'll think about trying one last time to get Visual Studio installed. I will have to revert back to a restore point prior to the first install. Unfortunately that is going to wipe out some software and several updates I did after installing Visual Studio.

Kill the gremlins living in your PC.

Wish I could, I would have sworn gremlins was a system requirement for using Microsoft products... Posted Image No wait, gremlins is one of the support packages they install. Posted Image


#4960972 Can I avoid the hassle of these IDE's?

Posted by Krik on 19 July 2012 - 09:36 AM

Yea, Visual Studio would make my life easier if I could get it to work, to start with. I have tried everything I can find to get it to work. And after a couple reinstalls it is looking on drive d for the MSBuld which without it won't even let you start a new project, I solved that by moving MSBuild to drive D. But then it cannot find .NET Framework 4.0 even though I have confirmed it is installed and working. To solve this requires I add a line to the .vcxproj files in every project to look to version 3.5 and then edit "Platform Tools" (I think thats what its called, can't recall were the setting is, at the moment) from v90 to v100. And this has to be done with every project both new and imported. So right now I look at a lot of example code and it takes a fair amount of time just to see how someone elses code works. And even after all that there is still a bug that randomly shows up, when I go to debug, I get a compile error that has some long negative (-) number, which I accidentally found I just need to exit Visual Studio and restart, and everything will work again. And oh and then there is the fact that all this some how is causing it to think my projects are out of date so every time I run the debugging it asks if I still what to compile the project.

Visual Studio will making my life easier??? Its been a week getting it to work so not from where I am standing, it has made my life more difficult. In reality Eclipse is easier and it requires that you figure out how to configure MinGW to work with it, and even then the Debugging is very awkward to work with. I am half inclined to use Eclispe but I have yet to find a tutorial on how to get 3rd party libraries to work with it. Of course I may have given up on that bit early as the hassle with Visual Studio has me quite put out with IDE's. I have tried using Eclipse in the past with PHP and it had some idiosyncrasies that made it awkward to use so I am not set on making it work either.

Found a tutorial on makefiles http://oreilly.com/c.../book/index.csp and I am also looking at GNU's documentation http://www.gnu.org/s...node/index.html. Probably a little later I will be figuring out how to use CMake.

I guess if I find building my own makefiles and batch files some how horrible difficult (which right now is not looking to be the case) I will give Visual Studio another shot. But to do that will require I wipe my C drive and reinstall, which for the way I like things Windows 7 needs heavy modification to work, half, right and reinstalling everything takes the better part of day to get done, and not one I look forward to.


#4960805 Can I avoid the hassle of these IDE's?

Posted by Krik on 18 July 2012 - 10:19 PM

If you don't want to look into CMake, just make a batch file that saves the libraries you link to and just add the extra files. Then you go to the command line where the batch file is, type "Compile" or "Compile.bat" and it runs the same. This could handle that include issue you have and wanting them to be hard coded as well.


I've seen CMake referred to in some of my other research, may take a look at it. I have to ask, are these batch files anything like the old school batch files from the Windows 3.1, 95 and 98 days? If so I just need to remember how to work with them again and I am set.

so going all command-line commando probably isn't going to make your life magically easier.


Actually I don't mind command line, I come form the old days of DOS and Windows 3.1, when to setup new software required that you knew how to use command line. I still on occasion use command line to fix PC's that won't boot to windows. I also worked with Linux back in the 1990's, when it was still very much a command line based OS. I even remember using an 8086 PC (and no that is not is MHz) from the early 1980's, you had to use the command line to configure the print drivers. My programing experience goes back to writing code in Q-Basic, so command line and bat files were at one point old hat for me. I would rather edit ini, bat, dat, and now xml files than try to figure out where some software is hiding some setting. It amazes me how often after using some piece of software for several years I learn it has features I have been wanting for almost as long as I have had the software. If I had been able to look at a configuration file I likely would have spotted it much sooner, you should have seen what I did with Windows 3.1.

If I can use batch files like Dragonsoulj is suggesting this may solve much of my headaches. I would much rather type code than learn to use some poorly made software.

Also one other thing I ran into while doing my own research was "Preprocessor Directives". I am not sure if there is anything of use in them but they do look to have some potential. Its funny how all the programing books and tutorials just completely skip over these, even though they are used (#include, #define, #pragma, and several others). I am temped to call it the "IDE effect", if it is all taken care of for you why go into any detail of learning how it works.


#4960562 Can I avoid the hassle of these IDE's?

Posted by Krik on 18 July 2012 - 11:34 AM

Likely someone is going to look at me side ways, I may even get my head knocked off and handed back to me, but I have to ask.

I am getting tired of fighting IDE's. Everything from the frameworks not being found (even though it is installed and works with other programs) to having to track down some obscure setting. Or a library file needing to be "linked", sometimes in more than one spot. And all compounded by poor documentation, or what is there is missing some key note. When did programing turn into something sort of using AutoCAD. I want to type (well copy, paste at least) and solve impossible coding dilemmas, not change settings on poorly constructed software.

I build PHP based web apps for a living, while the PHP does some of the heavy lifting, it is almost night and day when it comes to dealing with IDE's for writing code in C++. PHP can be done in a text editor (obviously a bit nicer one is good), and with that text editor I can include "library" files, pass data to and from other programing languages (MySQL, XML, Javascript, etc), make graphics, create files, ect. Also, as showing the server generated error messages to the user is not preferred, I build my own error handling, which during development can be used to provide additional debugging info. And all that can be done without touching any software settings.

Now obviously a compiler is needed for C++ but after that why on earth do I have to leap tall buildings to get an IDE to work with C++. It seems to me one could write C++ in a text editor. Build your own error handling and debugging "library" and run it in a simple compiler. Or maybe these IDE's have finial driven me to looney bin.On top of all that, what is more disconcerting is I know Microsoft. It can be just about guaranteed that upgrading to the next version of Visual Studio will be about the same as having to buy your first copy of Visual Studio, hours and maybe even days learning how to just make your first "hello world" compile.

If it is possible to use a text editor and a compiler to do C++, please I'll read a 10,000 page tutorial over keep on fighting these IDE's. It would seem to me it's possible, just most rely on the IDE to take care of certain things that could likely be done fairly simply in one's code or with an additional library file.

Funny thing is PHP is written in C and C++ if it were all a C++ lib or .h files man would it make things easy on me (hmm, I wonder???), barring the linking thing that is.


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