Jump to content

  • Log In with Google      Sign In   
  • Create Account


Member Since 19 Jul 2012
Offline Last Active Jul 22 2013 10:33 AM

#4999017 Decisions Make up Characters Personality?

Posted by on 08 November 2012 - 02:41 PM

(For example, choosing to do something wrong makes your character dark over time).

Uhm... yes?

But there is a BUT. Don't just "throw in" choices, for choices to work, you need the right game type (how you tell the story), you need the right gameplay,you need the player to feel the effects of his actions and he should care about his choices.

I personally think the original Fable is a very good example on how NOT to do it. As far as I remember, there was only ONE choice that really changed something, that was if you killed your sister or not. Also, because you always could choose between the obvious good/bad, you could go for mainly bad, throw in some good acts, then some more bad ones. It didn't affect the story in a great deal.
Also the "affecting the story" aspect is often made amateurish(like in the first Witcher), where almost all of your actions influence the last level. And even then they just influence who you fight. The fights are about equally hard.

"Heavy Rain" is a game that made choices very cool. It changed the story and didn't shy away from killing main characters if you screw up. It also didn't just add good vs. bad. You were always in a grey area and sometimes faced with a dilemma.

So, making STANDARD good vs. bad choices is easy, but as easy as they are, so generic they may feel for the player.

#4986492 So, i know nothin but want to make games in the future

Posted by on 03 October 2012 - 12:57 PM

I heard C++ is very good and i tried my hand at it a while ago, i think i was getting into it fairly easily.

You are new to programming? If so, I suggest to not use C++. I fear you may underestimate the complexety of C++.

I recently blogged about C++ and the toolchains available for it:

...That's why you shouldn't use C++ for your first big project. You spend so much time figuring out how everything else besides the coding works, how you install tool XY, how do you link correctly, how the HELL do you set up a good cross plattform build environment??...

Like others have suggested, start learning C#, java, Python or whatever. C++ is a beast to tackle. With C++, everything takes a bit more time, effort and knowledge. You see results faster with anything else than C++.

If you want to get professional with your programming, I also suggest you get some books about Design Patterns, Algorithms, Datastructures and maybe some discrete mathematics as well. Then you have a solid understanding of what you are doing and you can even find a job as a programmer.

But whatever you do, have fun with it. You are making games, there is probably no other field, where you can see your dreams get reality.

#4986316 Data Driven Game Architecture - examples?

Posted by on 03 October 2012 - 02:01 AM

I kind of agree, it depends on what you are doing. If you simply experiment with something and maybe throw it away later, then there is no reason for unit testing.

Even if you program only for yourself, if it may happen that you have to fix bugs, if it may happen that you refactor years old code, if it may happen that people want to know how far you are with your new version, unit tests are the way to go. Tracking down a bug that was introduced in a new version can be more time consuming than writing unittests.

#4986048 A Unique FPS Game

Posted by on 02 October 2012 - 07:39 AM

Now, I now it's a difficult process and it takes time and dedication into it, and believe me, I'm the lazy type x) but, you guys must know "Kickstarter" right?

PSvils sort of touched on that point before, it needs more than "only" dedication. There are many game projects that failed, even though the whole team was very dedicated.

Especially the point "-A good gameplay with great mechanics" is completely undefined. What is good gameplay?
Also mechanics and balancing are maybe harder in a FPS than in any other game type. There is the example of the Halo Sniper rifle reload time. There is a vast difference between 0.5 and 0.7 seconds reload time per shot.

#4985822 Should you make games easy or hard?

Posted by on 01 October 2012 - 12:36 PM

Well, yeah.. There are ways you could make it unhackable like for example using onlive but it has way too much drawbacks so its not really possible in practise.

Nothing is unhackable, take the screen brightness for example: I can change brightness and contrast on my monitor itself, there is nothing onlive can do about that setting.

It is good game design to remove incentive to cheat in games.
Why do you think its so rare to see a game that makes pitch dark nights a big part of the game..
Because light hack is probably the easiest cheat available to create.

The player is going to play the game, how he/she wants to play it. There is nothing you can do about it, you can only make it harder for him/her. No matter what you do, you can't stop the gamer listening to a justin beiber song while playing a scary game like Amnesia or Slender. So don't spend time forcing the player to not break your game design, you waste your time.

So, yeah... even for competitive games it might be a good idea to make it simple... I just dunno tbh

You write about it like you could think "Make it hard" and a hard game comes out. There are always reasons why a game is hard or easy and there are certain ways to make both fun.
I saw many posts with the slogan "easy to learn, hard to master". This sentence does only scratch the surface of what complexity hides behind it. If you want it hard to master, you should put more thought into WHAT exactly should the player LIKE to master. While I agree that this is the easiest way, it may not always be the best way, take "Super Meat Boy" for example, one hard game and very frustrating, but also very rewarding.
HOW to make it rewarding for the player? That is the interesting question.
E: there are also some successful hard games, Resident Evil was always more on the punishing side.

I'm just gonna fiddle around with my combat system and mechanics after I finally get my prototype to that stage.. and see what direction I'll go

Good idea.

#4983961 evil and good choices in singleplayer rpg

Posted by on 26 September 2012 - 07:10 AM

I thought about not writing a response, you responded to two minor points while ignoring most of the other text. I guess I am wasting my time here, but I still try.

First thing first:

Nothing he said every implied he was making a game, he was discussing design for games in general.

how small or big is my niche?

If he is asking about his niche, he wants to sell a game, then he has to make one. If he only wanted to talk about the design in general, his whole last section would be missing. For a discussion thread, it asks the wrong questions. Did you see any questions in his post about game design?

Now to you, glhf

where have i ever said anythign about that im making a game?

Then why are you asking about niches? You even talk about you writing the story in your next post and about presumably "your game studio". So what are you doing now?

And I see ur point that if im evil i shouldnt make heroic quests.
...But if ur just one guy doing everything then u dont got a choice...

What?! NO! Where did you get that one from?
I meant that good and evil questline first seem dangerously simple. And if you go for the simple way, it most likely will be bad.
What is the fun of making good or bad decisions? Like you said, most of them are very boring, the evil part is funny, but like in the first fable, it didn't matter what you did.
Generally, decisions that involve a dilemma are interesting, but you have to have a storyline that sets is up, that leaves the player with questions to think about.

Either way, if you want a good game with meaningful choices, you have to put a LOT of work in it. But work isn't the only thing, the story also needs to set up the choices. The player has to care about it, and work doesn't make that happen. It starts with you caring about the story itself. If even you don't care about it, why should anybody else?

Which brings me to the last point, which you did responded to, with this:

all studios have to thikn about costs
just an extreme example so u can understand...

you completely missed the point. You are here, asking what story you should make, so your income is higher than your cost. You didn't ask how you make it fun, what the difference is between fun and boring choices. You'd like to be a business man. Making money from your work is not a bad thing. The bad thing about what you seem to do is, you ONLY care about the business side.

If you are not passionate about what your game, your game is going to suck. I haven't seen you care even one bit about what you do.
Imagine a teacher. The best teachers are passionate about what they teach and about teaching itself. I've never had a teacher who didn't care and who was good in what he was doing.
Passion doesn't make you good, it is your driving force to get good.

I saw many opening posts here, this is the first one that didn't ask a real question about the actual game design. You talk about the storyline like you could sit down and make it in a few days. And you seem to think that making a sellable game is that easy.
So my suggestion is that you don't think about selling it, start to have fun with what you are doing and start asking questions about how you could design a good rpg game that incorporates choices.

If you respond, please take some time and write it in proper english.

#4983773 evil and good choices in singleplayer rpg

Posted by on 25 September 2012 - 04:16 PM

Personally I can't stand playing an rpg where I have to be some nice guy and help everyone.. it's a bit disgusting imo.. and I rarely buy rpg's like that.

Then why the hell are you doing one? Don't take it personally, but from your wording, you are not a professional game developer.

I detest hanna montana, there is no good reason to put me anywhere near a hanna montana game project.

but.. easier said than done... making a good and evil path to every quest.. and the game... is like making 2 different games with the same engine.
its like double work... well not relly.. but like.. a lot of more work.

Look, yes if you want a choice between good or bad, you do about twice the work. But then your game is probably bad too. Generally, decisions are interesting, if you face a dilemma. So making a good storyline is probably more work than you think.

how small or big is my niche?
how many players is my market of players that want evil options in rpgs?
is it worth the time and moneyand work u put in making evil path in the game or is my niche too small?

|---------------| <--- this size is your niche.
What answer do you expect? You gave no real info about the game, project team, budget, knowledge level, experience or anything, you posted some questions.
If you have a fun game, there will be gamers. If they pay for it is a different question.

maybe its best to not do evil choices AT ALL so small my niche is?
what about making a evil game where thers no heroish actions at all..?

Are you here for the money? You don't seem to care much about the game, you want to sell it... I can't start to write how bad this is. If you would finish the game, it would most likely be bad, you don't seem to care, as long as you can make money.

#4981998 Guide to bad game design

Posted by on 20 September 2012 - 06:13 AM

Hi guys and girls

Inspired by the article on badly written plots (http://www.ansible.c...le/plotdev.html), I thought maybe we could come up with a guide to bad game design. Since making a "good" game is hard, even harder to describe why it is good, it's often very easy to say why a game is bad.
I hope that we can discuss bad design choices in the different categories of game design.

Since game design is such a broad word and games can be so distinct from each other, I suggest writing the genre and specific subsection (like Leveldesign), if it only applies to one. If you disagree or have suggestions, please respond.

I plan to keep a list of the bad design choices in this first post.

To get this rolling, I start with some bad design choices:

In general, try to punish the gamer regularly for absolutely no reason, just because you can.

Make the gamer collect an arbitrary amount of resources for no reward, just to make the game longer. Make the collection as trivial as possible. For the worst effect, let him collect resources serveral times during the game, always increasing the amount needed.

#4981663 Ragdoll physics fighting in a RPG?

Posted by on 19 September 2012 - 07:07 AM

Depends on your audience, I guess the RPG community takes good artstyle and mechanics over graphics anyday everyday.
I presume nobody really cares if it is a pre-rendered animation or ragdoll physics, because when you cannot interact with the bodies in a direct way, Ragdoll physics just makes it look nice.

Comparing Oblivion and Morrowind, the fun of the Ragdoll physics introduced was to put them in weird positions and generally play around with the bodies.

#4981647 2D MOBA Game Design (Need Suggestions)

Posted by on 19 September 2012 - 05:55 AM

..., we need help thinking of a unique objective of the game! Don't make it too absurd but make sure you think outside the box.

Your wording alarms me already. What do you think you are doing?
The objective is the core of your game, it can change what skills are useful... it can change your gameplay.
From the looks of it, you want somebody else to come up with it, as if it was a skill. You don't seem to give it the attention it deserves.

You are in charge of it, get different ideas if you are stuck. If somebody comes up with the greatest idea ever, then use it. But don't expect somebody else to do the job for you.

I love "think outside the box" descriptions. It doesn't mean anything, not until you've defined 'the box'.

You have given some skill and character description, I don't know why you wrote down the control scheme. You haven't wrote anything about the lore, story of the characters. The only thing you gave was a generic word (Japanese Fighting) and that is what you will get as answers.

If you want to brainstorm something more specific, you have to tell more.

#4981305 Project Planning? (UML?)

Posted by on 18 September 2012 - 11:34 AM

I kinda agree with both, it depends on what you want to do:

first, you have to order your thoughs and solution ideas, a Mindmap is fit for the job, the Mindmap is only for you.
Then you can go into more detail, just draw what you like on a piece of paper, it only has to make sense to you.
If someone else should understand it too, there is where UML is a good tool, since it is widely used.

Keep in mind, UML is not the ultimate solution. There are other diagrams that also offer functionality. For ex. Petri Nets are great to model states and statechanges. With sofisticated analysis tools you can check for deadlocks, unreachable states,starvation etc.

If the client doesn't want to see any diagrams, it is completely up to your team.

If you work alone, you may not need to go to the hassle of UML.

E: in the end, choose the right tool for the right job. You don't do anything wrong with UML, but sometimes you can do better.

#4972125 Arena Of Gods - Game Concept

Posted by on 22 August 2012 - 03:11 AM

Yes you could die in one shot in CS, but that is not the point. The point is that you will die, even when you play with the best team, even when your team didn't do any mistakes. Death happens. That's why those games are fun.

But if you don't upgrade armor and the opponent has allot of damage, he can kill you in around 20-30 hits. Depends on how fast you can run away ( by speed upgrades ).
assume that you have 20x more health than in LoL. Looks much but that isn't, because you only live once.

So what you have now is a MOBA game with no deaths. Dying is an essential part of such competitive games, and you try to take it out. You increase the time in takes to die (you don't necessarily make it harder to die), but you slow down the gameplay. If you want to make it harder to die, you have to make the gameplay easier and/or forgiving, but that isn't fun on the long run, is it?
What I want to say, there will be situations where the player just dies. Sometimes the team doesn't even make a mistake. This is part of such a game you propose, yet you punsih the player by forcing him to leave, as if that would change anything. Now he has no chance to learn, he has no chance to redeem himself, he has no chance for vengance. All important feelings that make a competitive multiplayergame fun. But most importantly you force him to leave his friends, this is a multiplayer game, playing with your friends is the whole reason to play it.

You can make the "one life" policy work, but maybe you have to change to another type of game. It is especially hard to make it work in multiplayer. You also have to keep in mind that you may have to sacrifice some mechanics for this policy.

In general: punishing mechanics can be fun, they make a game challenging. But you have to be very careful with them, or you frustrate the player.
  • Do not punish for no reason.
  • Punish for a purpose (typically make death not wanted)
  • Make sure the player doesn't feel that he is punished for a reason.
  • Make sure that the player doesn't feel it's the games fault to begin with.
  • Do not punish hard for small crimes.
For good punishing mechanics, have a look at Demon souls.

#4972105 Game engine gui design

Posted by on 22 August 2012 - 01:38 AM

e: did misread much, edit post

class View
void AddController(Controller*);
I wouldn't do that, generally the view allows the controller to register "events", the view doesn't know about the controller directly.

I've got no idea how to design the model in a generic pattern. Really, I can't even come up with any example. How would I design this in a way that I don't have to inherit from this class for every set of data I want to display, and not have to inherit widget accordingly? This would kill the whole purpose, I belive.

Well, I think what you want to do is build your own gui framework. This means you build templates for the View. Templates for any controller / model is not a task of the windowing library afaik.
This means for the windowing library you need a class design for your gui elements and a messaging system, implementing the MVC pattern is not up to the library.

What do you want to do exactly, build a map editor? build a Settings- / Gamemenu build an in-game HUD?

If possible, use a windowing library, what you are doing here is trying to reinvent the wheel.

What I don't favor is putting bunch of variables that are sprawling over the place inside the Widget class, when they can be split up and contained in their own classes or structures, which you can then use with more flexibility

While I agree that it makes sense to put that in a structure, I don't agree that it gives you more flexibilty. What should be so more flexible about this approach?

#4971791 Good online source to learn MODERN C++

Posted by on 21 August 2012 - 06:03 AM

I am no beginner to programming , but a starter in C++. For me www.learncpp.com nailed it. Very accurate and in-depth articles make you familiar with the odds and ends of this language. It also covers the new features of C++11.
It starts at Genesis, but I cannot see the world as I did when I started with programming, so I am not sure how good the articles target the beginners.

One thing I can tell you: This site is great to show you all the tools you have in C++ and how you use them. However, it doesn't tell you too much about how to design your programs, when to use what datastructure etc.

E: notice that you definitely are not a beginner ;)

#4971781 Realistic Encouragement vs Trolling Tear-down

Posted by on 21 August 2012 - 05:23 AM

My message is for the downtrodden who now feel their GameDev dream is out of reach, who are frustrated and considering giving up, and who might be feeling that perhaps the mean-hearted claims of those mentioned above are correct. Don't give up. Yes, there are realities and requirements that you must satisfy before you're ready to get a job at that big game company, or to start your own game studio, or whatever your dream is, but if you want it badly enough, then you wont let the nay-sayers tell you what you can and can't do. Did you know the Walt Disney was fired by a newspaper editor because he "lacked imagination and had no good ideas"?

I see something similar at my local Boxing Gym constantly. Younger guys than me come, are full of hopes, dreams and ambition. They want their first fight as soon as possible. Then they lose and I never see them again.
Why? They saw themselfes in the ring, their opponent lying on the floor and a beatiful woman giving them their champion belt and her phone number. It wasn't the Martial Arts they were so passionate about. And when realizing that they aren't the next Mohammed Ali and it may be harder to get good than they thought, they leave.

The same thing seems to happen to beginners here, they come, think they have the next new supergame in hand and after they implemented it, they can start their own game studio etc.
When they look at their results and see that they aren't anywhere near 3A quality, most of them give up.

both boxing and gamedev are extremely fun, but not for everybody. And even fewer people get so good at it that they can become a professional.

Yes, there are stories from personalities such as Walt Disney, Bill Gates and Einstein. But chances are, you are neither of those, you are just a normal guy. There might be the next legendary gamedeveloper lurking around in the beginner section, but treating all beginners this way seems wrong to me.
Don't be a dick, be realistic. Encourage somebody to have a look at tutorials, give tutorials when needed, but more encouragement is misplaced I think. If somebody is discouraged by this, he/she would have abandoned game programming anyways later on. I cannot imagine you discourage the guy/girl who just likes to develop a game, who doesn't really care about success. In the end, those are the people with potential, the people who stay.