Jump to content

  • Log In with Google      Sign In   
  • Create Account


Member Since 04 Aug 2012
Offline Last Active Jun 28 2014 12:41 AM

#5143389 What comes first, artwork or code?

Posted by 3Ddreamer on 31 March 2014 - 12:03 AM





Dear all,


We are in the process of writing up the GDD for our first mobile game, with neither of us having experience in the software development industry (I've managed IT projects before, but they were mostly code-driven and did not feature a graphics component). We are going to outsource the artwork and the development, most likely to two different parties to save costs.


That is ideal for a game developer to have team members in somewhat of a competition for future services.  It is also good to spread the risk to two or more parties instead of let the full weight of risk fall on one person's shoulders. So far, you are strategically positioned.


My question is - what comes first, the code or the artwork?


Most of the successful and profitable games are developed along a course similar to this:


1) Game Concept


In the largest game development companies, this can take a team weeks or months (as time permits while they work on other projects). The game concept is usually scripted in printed documents, market analysis is done to establish market appeal, and early outline for game functionality is constructed. Last part of this stage is a cost analysis and estimate to be approved by the game development leadership.


2) Game Design


The AAA game development method is to have a professional game designer work with one or more concept and design art specialists to communicate the design in art form.  The game design is illustrated visually with colored pensil art, digital art, cartoon illustration with captions, or other preferred art medium or combination of them. Sometimes 2D and 3D artists to be used in actual game art asset creation are used for the preliminary game design illustration.  It is common for many changes to be made in this stage as project managers and/ or game designer brainstorm with the game developer leadership and the art team to improve game design.  This can even lead to revision of game concept if a "brilliant idea" is conceived.   Often final approval for the project depends on the impact of this stage in the imagination of the leadership.


3) Organization


Though a highly anticipated game concept (such as version 2 of a game series) might see dedicated organization begin almost immediately, a new game concept will require approval of game concept and game design before substantial resources are invested in the project. This means that the full team will not be assembled until approval by the head of company.  The effect is that programmers, artists, techical support personnel, and testers become fully engaged once game development is launched in earnest.  


4) Proof of Concept


This is a demo game.  It must show that the company can both create the functionality and supply the art content.  Investors who know anything about the industry should demand a Proof of Concept version of the game before investing more money. Who starts first, coders or artists, may depend on who you believe needs the most time to complete a stage of the development or version of the game.


5) Game Development


The real construction of the game begins. Programmers and artists will scramble in a mad frenzy to not be the team caught trailing the other. Neither team wants to be the one responsible for delaying the reaching of project milestones.  IT personnel will be expected to meet software management, source control, version control, and documentation objectives.



Game concept, game design, game design art, and IT issues are the priliminary stages before programming and art teams can make full speed progress. Investors will not be happy to provide capitol for a project until they approve of the game concept and design, which takes game design art to communicate these to the investors. 


For these reasons, one can make a case that ART should come first. The 2D and 3D artists often have the skills to supply the game design art to satisfy the investors.  Art is closely tied to game design.



Based on my research, it seems the first time after the GDD would be to ask the programmers to produce the code for the game using placeholder art - e.g., square boxes instead of real graphics.


Very skilled programmers do not need to know anything about the game concept and design. It is the responsibility of leadership to know game concept and design, then tell the programmers what game functionality is needed.


If done correctly, the game designer will make the end user game functionality by using the tools made available by the coders. This is why the programmers do not need to know a single thing about the game concept and design.  They only need to know the features to be made available to the game designer.  The game designer will manage the artists and request new functionality in the tools from the programmers.  Sometimes the game designer knows and does NO coding, though high level coding of game functionality is desired and preferred.


NOTE:  Game Developer is the person or company which is ultimately responsible for the creation of a game.  Game Developer does NOT mean programmer or designer, though Indy game developers fill all of these roles.


Then the next step is to send this over to the artist and ask him/her to create the artwork to fit the placeholders.


This is a matter of personal preferrence and convenience.  Actually, the artists can create all of the art before a single line of coding is written and the opposite is also true.


In your case, you should test having programmers and artists working simultaneously, then YOU import the completed artwork into your game. If you do it this way then only YOU need to know what the game concept and game design is, plus maximum efficiency and shortest time for development is possible.  Synergy depends on YOU and not them.


Once the artwork is ready, it goes back to the developers who fit it to replace the placeholder graphics.


"Developer" is a single person or a single organization responsible for the creation of the game. The roles of the developer vary greatly from company to company, doing everything as in the Indy Developer, or only handling leadership responsibilities, or having some role in the actual creation.


Does this sequence sound about right? Note that I know I'm leaving out the QA part.



If you have strong strategic thinking and leadership skills, then the programmers and the artists do not need to know anything about the game concept and design.  What proportion of skills and roles are used by the team members is partly a matter of necessity but mostly a matter of your preference.


It is ideal to have all team members working independently of one another but dependent on YOUR guidance. This way none of them are waiting on one another but only waiting on leadership upon completing elements of the game. This is BY FAR the most cost effective way of running a game development company. cool.png


Imagine at the other extreme if all of your team members are depending on one another for everything and spend many hours discussing things among themselves instead of making things. ph34r.png  Does that sound profitable to you? ohmy.png


Quality Control is YOUR responsibility. You are the leader.

#5143377 how many projects at once?

Posted by 3Ddreamer on 30 March 2014 - 10:41 PM



This depends on talent, skills, time available, and speed of completion. Generally beginners should only work on their first project until done and polished well. At the opposite extreme, high achievement professionals often handle 2 or 3 major projects plus a few small occasional ones.


For you, your results and progress will let you know how much you can currently handle! smile.png

#5143373 Best ways to obtain an animated 3D model(s) for indie developer

Posted by 3Ddreamer on 30 March 2014 - 10:33 PM



 Its seems that you found a perfect fit for your situation.  I believe that your original post shows that you are pragmatic about your growth.


If things go well for you, then you may someday find the custom meshes, rigging, textures, and animations are the only way to:


1)  Display an original game concept which sets your game apart from the large number of them out there.


2)  Grabs the attention of end users will a unique gaming experience.


As you advance in game devevelopment, then you will realize even more how critical these issues are for profitability, but for now you have found a solution which takes you

to the next level.


I believe that you will do well.

#5139727 Best ways to obtain an animated 3D model(s) for indie developer

Posted by 3Ddreamer on 17 March 2014 - 10:11 AM

In the long term, you get what you pay as far as 3D.

Thanks for the answer. There a couple of problems with this though: as you said, finding someone who is willing to work for free would be very, very hard to do. Besides, I don't want anybody doing stuff for me for free. I wouldn't feel right about it and also, people aren't nearly as motivated when they work for free as when they know they have to deliver something good in order to get paid. And as soon as they find a job that pays them they'd be gone.


Bingo!  The 3D artist spent years and thousands of hours to reach a level of quality worthy of most games.  It is a profession in its own right.


The dedicated 3D artist who wants to earn a living at it is very motivated to promote a career.  You must offer something to them of real value or they will not be interested.  That could be money, it could be a share in the profits of the game, or it could be the opportunity to grow with your organization if you are found of value as well.


A true artist is looking at risks compared with a return on the hard work.  As a 3D artist myself, I can tell you that it sure is hard work. We have current living expenses which are constantly reminding us that we need to get paid for our art work and long hours.


I have seen several disgruntled artists leave organizations because:


1) They were not getting paid enough.

2) Artistic liberty was infringed.

3) There was no future in the present project or maybe the whole company looks toward an inevitable dead end.


The result was that much needed 3D work was not delivered in a timely manner and sometimes not at all when a 3D artist left the company.


Coders are under a ton of pressure because if delays are too severe, then artists can jump ship like the plague hit the ship!  Some companies with budgets keep the artists happy and food on their tables, perhaps by working on multiple projects according to priority. You would be amazed at how much art content can be created even before a single line of coding is written.


In the meantime, you can use place-holder 3D objects in areas that need to be developed and will allow for that. This will enable you to keep development moving and is standard method for indy and small game development companies. Even a Proof-Of-Concept version of your game can use a lot of placeholders.


Cost for 3D work ranges from $15 - $ 45 per hour depending on skill and experience. Some world class artists make six digit incomes per year in conjunction with their non-game related 3D work such as for Hollywood motion pictures. They fill gaps with game 3D work sometimes.


Students are your best source for 3D work at this stage, but you MUST offer them something of value to retain them past the first model or they will lose interest very soon.

#5138991 No Low Level Programming is better ?, Please explain this then ?

Posted by 3Ddreamer on 14 March 2014 - 09:39 AM

3Ddreamer, on 10 Mar 2014 - 8:46 PM, said:
Low level coding optimizations are years from being a concern of yours. After 1-3 years of making single player and multiplayer 2D games, then maybe you will be ready but perhaps you will never need to use low level coding optimizations. Using an existing game engine is a far more efficient use of your hard work instead of recreating the wheel by authoring your own low level coding.

Hi, i,m busy for ten years now ( looking at my old software in my signature ), and my game engine already exists, altho it is very basic.


That is why you are busy for TEN years now and still stuck on "very basic." 


People need to do a bit more research, such as here at gamedev, to avoid spending those extra years and thousands of hours of labor with inferior results.


Read my signature.

#5137991 No Low Level Programming is better ?, Please explain this then ?

Posted by 3Ddreamer on 10 March 2014 - 06:46 PM




Low level coding optimizations are years from being a concern of yours. After 1-3 years of making single player and multiplayer 2D games, then maybe you will be ready but perhaps you will never need to use low level coding optimizations. Using an existing game engine is a far more efficient use of your hard work instead of recreating the wheel by authoring your own low level coding.

#5137985 Questions About Game Development

Posted by 3Ddreamer on 10 March 2014 - 06:28 PM




Hello there,


My name is Mark, and I'm brand new to the GameDev.net forums, and after lurking around a bit I decided it was best to make an account. I am a Junior in High School, and I'm interested in pursuing a future in the game industry. Up until about a year ago, I wasn't even considering pursuing a field based around developing software.


I was, and still am, fascinated with Architecture, albeit to a slightly lesser extent, because Architecture seems to consistently rank as one of the worst degrees to go into, primarily due to the high unemployment rate after undergraduate or graduate studies...


College or university education is very recommended by me, but not for the typical reasons that people enroll in them. Please let me explain.


One of my uncles was a successful architect for an interstate firm.  He wanted me to get a degree in architecture and he offered to get me established in the industry, dependent on my college achievement.  Architecture was one of my top 3 passions, so I carefully drew information and considered the offer.


You are correct:  It is very difficult to enter the field of architecture and even a high grade point average results in slim odds of being hired. Degrees in most fields result in a career in that area only a fraction of the time, but the other benefits of finishing with a degree far outweigh the risks.  I would only expect a graduate to enter the field if offered an entrance by a particular person or firm during or before starting college studies. In places such as Japan and Germany, this is standard procedure and very common but the USA is far behind. It sounds as if you live here in the USA.


My uncle offered a way of my entering architecture, which likely would have been my only opportunity to do so.  My mother was chronically ill, so I dedicated myself to caring for her, which forced me to pass on university study.


Family, relatives, and friends of mine agree that the knowledge, experience, and networking which are gained from college or university are well worth the effort. Every one of them are doing well, despite not having entered the career that they wanted.


Some careers absolutely demand a degree, such a medical doctor, but others do not.  For example, if you can pass the bar examination, then you can generally get a law practice permit. The game development industry is the same way.  A degree would greatly help you, but not absolutely required.  There are plenty of examples of people such as myself who have no degree and are progressing well in this field.


(http://www9.georgetown.edu/grad/gppi/hpi/cew/pdfs/Unemployment.Final.update1.pdf - Page 7). I also looked into civil engineering, as it's closely related to architecture, but it didn't grasp my interest the same way Architecture did. At that point, I started to look into things I was passionate about. You may be thinking, "this kid's only 16, he has his whole life ahead of him, and he's worried about finding the right career," but I'm just the type of person who likes to plan ahead, and pursuing an education for a career that's both a passion of mine and has a fairly decent amount of job security is what seems to be the next step after high school, and choosing the right degree is a big deal in that sense. I am an avid gamer, both on PC and consoles, so I decided to look into the possibility of pursuing a job in the games industry. So while I began to educate myself on the topic, such as the types of jobs within the industry, as well as the work culture, and game industry news in general, I began to take a real liking to pursuing an education that would someday allow me to be a game designer.


In the majority of the most advanced countries, a new secondary school student is expected to know what they want to do and begin pursuing it actually earlier than your age of 16.  Again, the USA is far behind the world leaders in education on this subject. It is not your fault, but the popular opinion of western countries really stinks in education.  You must overcome the resistance in your culture with a made mind.


Choose carefully your post-secondary institution.  It would be best to work in a company first in the game industry, even at your age as an apprentice or at least a modder of an existing game, then aim for a school which best fits what you gained from that.  Sometimes a very promising apprentice is offered a scholarship by a company. By the way, I suggest avoiding student loan debt.


Recently, in my spare time, I've begun to study programming, which for me seemed to be a good fit, since I enjoy finding creative solutions to problems, and both my dad and my brother have extensive programming experience, so if I need help or don't understand a topic, they could help me get a better grasp of what I'm trying to understand. Of course, when it comes to programming, I'm still a "n00b," but I've also began to read books and articles on the theory and logic behind game design and what makes games "fun." 



Now that I've given you a hefty chunk of background, I was hoping to ask a few questions about the industry, and breaking into the industry.



1. I've been reading over Tom Sloper's Lessons/FAQ on pursuing a career in Game Design, and it's come to my understanding that in order to break into the industry you need a degree and a portfolio, among other things, such as work experience, and networking. 


Please re-read his article. I'm sure that Tom is not saying that only people who have degrees are a success in the industry.  Several of the top software developers of all time did not finish college. (I can name a half-dozen easily.) In game development software circles, more are found. Never the less, it is a huge advantage to have a degree that relates to this field and the long term success stories include graduating most of the time. 


 I'm hoping that while I'm at a University, I can begin to work on a few projects of my own to show in my portfolio, as well as hopefully find an internship so that I can gain some real-world experience.


I wanted to ask, I have this nagging feeling that I won't have enough spare time, outside of classes and being in college in general, to work on something truly spectacular to "wow" whoever is interviewing me, or that I won't be able to find a team/group to work with. For those of you in college, is that the case, or am I making myself feel a bit more worried than I should be. Also, relating to those who majored in Computer Science, I understand the answer to this question probably depends on whoever your professor was, but are there projects within the curriculum (both group and individual), and did you consider those worth adding to your portfolio?


Projects should be assigned by your school and/or a game development company.  Likely you will not have time for much else, but keep working every day, even on vacations and weekends, perhaps filling unused time with your own project.


**Sorry about the long-winded question. I promise the others will be more concise.


2. I've heard things about the hiring climate in the industry, and I'm confused as to whether it's better to have knowledge in a wide variety of areas or to specialize in something, such as UI Design or Network Systems. I was wondering which would not only appeal more to the interviewer, as well as what would aid me better in the working environment. Would it be a middle ground, such as having specialized experience but still have working knowledge of other jobs within the industry?


Becoming skilled and effective in one area and move to the next to repeat the process.  Become very skilled in what you need in the relative near future. Useful learning comes in research with a purpose


All else is grasping at the wind. Keep it simple, focus, and apply!


3. Exactly how much creative content is contributed to the game, say, by a programmer, to the game, in terms of gameplay ideas? What is the creative climate within the industry? The reason I'm asking is that I'm actually a creative type, and for me, a programming job is something that I would enjoy, but is a means to an end, which in this case is becoming a designer. 


I work as an artist for a game designer who is partner with a game developer. Often these are two different positions, but can be two roles by one person such as an indy game developer who wears all the roles in his or her organization.  In teams, roles are assigned to different people.  Sometimes, as in the case of my co-ordinator, the game designer has no coding or programming role but is responsible for concept, design, art team co-ordination - often filling some of the content creation as well.  Some game designers also assist with coding at higher levels such as scripting the game functionality. All of this various wildly from company to company according to demand and team abilities.


Safe to say, the larger the game development company then the more demand for specialists.  A programmer in larger companies is more likely to handle only coding and not create any art assets, though there are exceptions out there in the industry.


Bottom line is that it ALL depends on the particular company, with wide variations across the industry.


4. Is it better to look for an unlisted internship (such as what is written here: http://www.gamedev.net/page/resources/_/business/breaking-into-the-industry/techniques-for-finding-unlisted-game-internships-r3130) or apply for an internship program, such as one at Riot Games or Blizzard? Which would provide a more honest experience as to what life is like in the industry?


Explore and pursue all channels until you find a keeper. You won't know what shoe fits best for the situation until you hike that trail.


5. Just for future reference (chances are an opportunity to apply the answer to this wont come for several years), if my goal is to become a game designer, through a programming job, when applying for an internship, if there is a game design internship available, do I apply for that, or would it be better to focus on the job at hand, which would be building skills in programming? 


Usually  work "job at hand" near term and gain all you can with the aim toward getting your foot in the door of a company long term, but don't wait to look for new opportunities because a great one could be had at any time if you have value to offer.



For those of you who read through this lengthy introduction/series of questions, thank you for taking your time with my first post. I really appreciate it and look forward to your answers.


- Mark Yampolsky


My hobby lead to my first position because a game designer friend of mine saw my 3D and 2D art work.  He invited me to join the team.  I had no portfolio or degree, though I recommend them.  All I had was my skill, my proof in my work, and my network. You be the judge of what you need, but I suggest increasing your probability of entrance into the industry by completing a degree that relates to the game development industry in a direct way.




Mostly you will be creating opportunities as you gain skill and experience.  Your value is what a company seeks, regardless of learning path.  Experience must be demonstrated to a company with results that are obvious to appreciate.  Education, portfolio, and networking will all increase your opportunities. Most of all, you need to show results to indicate your value to a company.

#5135175 Another beginner confused

Posted by 3Ddreamer on 27 February 2014 - 03:13 PM





First, enjoy where ever you are in game development, even as a beginner, take great satisfaction in the learning process because your success depends on it.  Read my signature below here and you will see that you need to take my advise to heart.


In my opinion, beginners with any kind of desire to eventually have strong art assets in a game should start with a decent game engine.  Here is a partial list of them:



Settle on only one language and one game engine to develop 3-5 single person 2D games.  After about 1-2 years, then go multi-player and maybe even 3D games.


There are a few very hard working and talented game developers who are successful as solo indy developers, but the majority of success testimonials come from people in teams.   Such organizations almost require some sort of version control software and it would help you to make modular coding of good game code if you begin to use one fairly soon.  You need to study the folder, file, functionality, and other structures of successful games in order to learn to do the same.  Look under the hood!  Open the main registry of popular indy games and see how they look. It will really enlighten you. Your games and your development system should be such that you can turn ON, OFF, or SWAP modules of coding instead of digging thru spaghetti coding.  Generally, game source codes are built to plug into a game engine and are sometimes partly integrated with a game engine, but the best reusable coding is modular and not fully integrated.  Therefore learn class files, UIs, GUIs, importing art file formats, executable files, and dlls application within your game software by the time you reach about 4-8 games made by you.  Most people will be at this a good couple years to reach this point.


The larger and more complex a game source code is, then the more the demand for a team to develop it and another team to create art assets for it.  The larger the game development company then the more demand for structure such as version control and source control. 


Beginners typically write good, reusable, working code at about 10-50 lines per day. Most of the rest is abandoned for various reasons, including unusable or undebuggable. This highlights the need for reasonable game software architecture planning (simple for the first few years) and setting reasonable goals expressed in the game concept that is outlined in easy to read documentation.  Follow your plan to the best of your ability and always complete projects unless the coding becomes obviously unworkable or unsustainable.  You must get satisfaction to be in this hard line of work! wink.png


These things are critically important if you want to be a long term professional success in the industry.  If this is just a hobby, then it only matters that you really enjoy it. smile.png




#5129696 Beginner needing a point in the right direction,

Posted by 3Ddreamer on 07 February 2014 - 03:27 PM



The first thing you should do is to assemble your complete workflow pipeline based on game concept and design.  Next you need to make extremely simple 2D single player games, probably about 3-5 of them before you advance beyond that.  Focus on object oriented programming, class files, making an executable for each game, and very modular coding so you can swap sections of coding for new ones or turn modules On, Off, or manipulate them by a UI (Especially Main Menu/GUI).  All of these must be established as soon as possible.  You need game programming lessons in the language of choice for this.  Choose only one language and reach intermediate level before adding a second one.


Most of all you have to really enjoy it!  smile.png

#5126003 Marketing / Trailers questions

Posted by 3Ddreamer on 23 January 2014 - 06:03 PM



Some businesses find college students to work on such things, sometimes even officially thru the college work co-operative program which connects businesses with students.  There are a lot of very talented college students, I must say. Advertise it on Craig's list and you might get a student who needs to do a class project and willing to be of service at no cost for the experience, career reference, and class project completion, perhaps even a part of their graduating dissertation.

#5121452 Has there ever been game engines or libraries in assembly?

Posted by 3Ddreamer on 05 January 2014 - 12:38 PM

The game engine is everything that propels the development and operation of a game.  It typically includes render to screen libraries such as graphics APIs, device input library, sound library, miscellaneous dlls, encoders and decoders, runtime clock. scene graph, compilers, JIT compilers, extractors, installers, effects libraries, physics library, and sometimes a whole workflow pipeline for software development is included but often used are interfaces to outside applications and external software for integrated workflow pipeline.  Sometimes only the parts of the game engine needed to execute and play the game are included but sometimes part or all of the development tools are included for developers and modders. Game source code can be distinct from game engine source code, partly integrated, or fully integrated. Packaging only the game coding and game engine libraries needed for game execution and play is the most common distribution to end-users. It is possible to create a game code which interfaces interoperably with two different versions of a game engine. This is sometimes the case when the game code on a new release version of a game is fundamentally the same as the original game code but it is run with a new game engine.  Some players have complained that they got tricked by the publisher advertisement when a game was advertised as being built on a new game engine but the actual game structure and function was basically the same. On the other hand, some "once and done" development has the game coding and much of the game engine so integrated that it is either impossible or impractical to separate them.   

#5121444 Best way to get started

Posted by 3Ddreamer on 05 January 2014 - 12:12 PM



What is the best engine for an avid programmer but novice game developper?



Especially since you are a very experienced coder, you need to look at the specifications and documentation for several game engines to decide which ones fit you. You have that technical experience to know which ones will greatly utilize your skills after deep research.  




Make sure to choose a game engine which most closely fits your experience, desire, and your previous workflow pipeline (for examples, Visual Studio or other IDE), because all the best game engines have a kind of default workflow pipeline tailored to a particular set of software and applications (some for Java IDE, Blender IDE, Visual Studio IDE, 3DS Max, and so forth.)  Have the best fit game engine!  Don't abandon your best experiences and already in place IDE and other major tools but find the game engine that best fits what you know.  Do not try to reinvent the wheel.


Usually I would recommend Unity 3D as one of the top game engines but you seem to actually be over-qualified, which is rare.  Look for a game engine which is heavy in C++ for the core and at least one other language (such as C#, Python, or Lua) for the game function scripting, particularly end-user functions to be scripted.  I assume that you have little or no 2D and 3D graphics art experience so you need to find a game engine with a big community of artists to provide you with assets at least in early stages, but you can use place-holders in Alpha versions of a game. 


Think very much in terms of assembling a total workflow pipeline, with early emphasis on model and texture file formats, GUIs, Class Files, physics libraries (such as Bullet Physics, or other), dlls, and increase complexity with version control that is similar to what you are already used to using, like Git or something.  Broaden your scope of development early but simple and increase complexity with following cycles of development in versions of the game source code.  Use as many already existing libraries under legitimate license as practical.   As if this is not already too much, do not spread yourself too thin and take too much or you will screech to a halt and have to reassess your strategy.  If your early iterations are very simple but increasing with new versions then you should be alright. Place holders are very important so you don't spend too much time on art assets in early iterations.


An experienced coder like you needs to know what types of things are in a 3D model folder.  For example, a model folder for an army tank might

 have the model file, texture file, material file, various map files, animation files, effects file, sometimes a model configuration file, and potentially a few others.  The 3D model creation software such as Blender, Maya, 3DS Max, and others can usually be manipulated by you to include all of these into one model folder (for example: tnk1, tnk2, etc. - the names of them) but in some cases place a particular file such as the texture file outside of the model folder if needed by the game engine or needed for modding (open modification).  Game engines have these specifications according to a workflow pipeline as expressed in the documentation for the engine and you can get help from the community around the engine, too.


Look at Unreal (UDK), Torque 3D, Unity 3D, SFML, and CryEngine as your first priorities for consideration, in your experience situation.


Set achievable weekly and daily goals and be sure to keep it satisfying and rewarding.  smile.png



#5121416 Has there ever been game engines or libraries in assembly?

Posted by 3Ddreamer on 05 January 2014 - 11:02 AM

Engine is more descriptive whereas the other terms are too vague.  Like a vehicle, the motive source of the operations for a game is typically in the game engine but the computer brain of the vehicle is the game source code.

#5121341 Best Place to learn 3D Computer Graphics?

Posted by 3Ddreamer on 05 January 2014 - 03:45 AM

Thanks it looks great but i cannot learn from videos , i prefer text.


The high achievement developers often get the most from written text.  The more sophisticated the development then the greater importance is generally needed for reading comprehension and retention.  Much more information can be packed into a book than many videos and typically much more profound and flexible to handle, too.

#5121338 Best Place to learn 3D Computer Graphics?

Posted by 3Ddreamer on 05 January 2014 - 03:32 AM

Good day,




2) I am a person who likes to explore different things and try new things, for Low-Level API's I tried DirectX/3D first and hated because of its disgusting and bloated code, i also tried Open GL and preferred it over DirectX/3D. I am also considering using Horde 3D, it looks powerful, efficent and simple to implement in my game and it has a fantastic documentation.


Horde 3D seems to be a perfect fit for your experience level and interests. The OpenGL 2.0 is more capable than some developers realize who might recommend 3.1 or later.  in your case with OpenGL 2.0 you have a well documented and supported version of OpenGL which is actually much more extensive into later versions when needed than, again, some developers realize. If your end-user does not have at least 2.0, then it is very feasible to write a small application or use and existing one which detects this situation and notifies the end-user while giving them the link to the OpenGL 2.0 or possibly even package it (under compliance with license to do so, of course) with your game software and then have the update application ask for permission to install it into their machine.  Probably you should use generic application to do this, some being purchased and a few are offered at no cost from the big names in software development such as Microsoft and Adobe.  You should have this in place for your very first game, even if it is a no cost game.  OpenGL 2.0 runs in practically all the graphics cards and integrated computer graphics motherboards, with the exception of some old dinosaur computer left in the attic for 20 years or something. OpenGL for these reasons has some advantages over the latest OpenGL version, so feel good about it. Mature code like that will run in computers for years to come.


Tip: With graphics renders such as Horde 3D, you are going to package only part of the software components with your game unless you want some people to have the tools and other things included to be able to mod the game.  Building a wrapper around the executable of the game would allow you to better secure your game coding from pirates and yet leave some asset folders such as "skin", map, and sound folders exposed for end-users to mod.


With all these issues you may begin to see the extreme importance of modular coding so you can plug or remove sections of coding or enable or disable them by interfaces at will and easily.  Class files are very important toward this and depending on your game complexity and concept also configuration files. Avoid spaghetti coding!

4) Which Model format would you recommend for models and animations?


Horde 3D:

 "Custom optimized model and animation formats for maximum performance

  • Mixture of binary and XML formats for best tradeoff between performance and productivity
  • Support for DDS textures and other common image formats
  • Collada Converter for bringing assets from many common DCC tools to Horde3D
  • Collada Converter implemented as command line tool that can be integrated in automatic build process"


There you have it, there in the Horde 3D website.  It totally depends on the workflow pipeline which you assemble to build game source code and eventually create end-user assets for your game like GUIs, sounds, textures, and 3D Models.   There are Collada plug-ins for 3DS Max, Blender, and other popular 3D software. You need to research at the Horde 3D website which formats that they recommend most and why.  The 2D file formats must be considered, too, but most are available in software such as Photoshop, GIMP, Inkscape, WordPress, and others.

5) I have Bullet Physics linked and ready for my compiler but do i have to have scientfic knowledge of physics to use Bullet Phyiscs? Yes, some for the coding but I have seen amazing results from people using existing libraries (under license to do so), tweaking, and customizing to their implementations.

I see Thank you for your info you sound like a veteran who knows what He/She is doing due to your expierence.  You are welcome. smile.png 

I am currently quite fresh in the 3D realm of Game Development , which resources would recommend that give someone a solid head start in 3D Graphics/Game programming?
Horde 3D developers, documention, tutorials, and community there will be most of your research time.  Check here at game dev for the OpenGL learning resources and advice:





If you work almost everyday at this, then you should have a simple single player game in a few months.  Remember to broaden your areas of game development on the very first game and increase complexity in each area with following iterations which could be versions of the same game or new games.  After a number or months or a year or two, then you will find that you need version control and repository software such as Git or other. If you decide to do this for a living income, then you likely will need a team eventually.  Learn fairly early to develop by iterations, in any case! 


Work hard at it and have fun!biggrin.png