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0r0d

Member Since 19 Dec 2012
Offline Last Active Today, 12:21 AM

#5293503 Do you usually prefix your classes with the letter 'C' or something e...

Posted by 0r0d on 26 May 2016 - 12:04 AM

I dont prefix my classes with anything.  My convention is that classes are capitalized and that's it.  Syntax coloring helps a lot in telling what's what, and along with context you dont need anything else.




#5290197 A general question.

Posted by 0r0d on 04 May 2016 - 10:31 PM

Normally you'd write up a design doc that covers everything in the game to whatever level of detail you feel appropriate.  You'd want to give gameplay examples, with comparisons to existing games if you can, as well as mockups of levels, UI, etc.  That'd be the start.  Then you can proceed to trying to prototype the gameplay to see what works and what doesnt, with the understanding that you'll likely be iterating on the design for a while before you start trying to go into full production.




#5290006 A question for how game engines build their game code for game logic -_-?

Posted by 0r0d on 03 May 2016 - 11:55 PM

@ 0r0d : 

 

How about making ONE game with your engine.  Then you can worry about "every genre" somewhere down the line.

 

umm I made a game with other engine so realized what structure I have to make for a wide use of every genre.

 

this structure is my engine can support various instructions ( like Script or VM or Compiler and so on ) or can be a core library.

 

If my engine could be like this , all of game makers can make all contents , UIs , logics.

 

I'm really not sure what you're asking.  It sounds like you already know enough to know what you want to put into your engine.  So just make the engine, then make a game.  If you're asking what's the best way to make an engine that will be great at every single type of game... there's no such thing.  Just decide what type of game you want to make, figure out what features the engine need, and then make that.




#5289990 A question for how game engines build their game code for game logic -_-?

Posted by 0r0d on 03 May 2016 - 07:05 PM

 

 

@ frob : I just want that my engine can be a wide use engine for every genre.

 

 

 

How about making ONE game with your engine.  Then you can worry about "every genre" somewhere down the line.




#5289515 Question about Open World Survival Game Engines

Posted by 0r0d on 30 April 2016 - 10:35 PM

In the end, they're doing what most dev teams do.  Go with the vision, don't bother listening to the customers.  And they've all paid the price.

Your intentions about listening to the customers are admirable, and you absolutely should.  But dont dismiss the notion of a "vision" outright.  I can tell you from experience that a game project without some sort of vision is a recipe for a big huge mess.  That vision can chance as you get feedback and as you iterate on the design, but the vision is what keeps people focused on finishing the game and what will make it unique.  The vision also tells you what's important and what isnt.  You'll need this when it comes time to start dropping features, characters, levels, etc.

 

Let me ask a hypothetical:

 

You go to Applebees.  You want a steak, fries, and a salad.  The waitress says "well we really want you to try our new sushi".  You've never had sushi, so you try it, but don't like it.  So you ask for your steak, fries, and a salad instead.  Then the waitress says "well we don't really want to go that direction with your dinner, you can have fish stew instead of that".  You don't want it, but you try the fish stew anyways.  It sucks as well and you never do get that steak, fries, and a salad.

 

You go to Airborne's.  You want steak, fries, and a salad.  We give you steak, fries, and a salad.  It was pretty good.  Then the manager comes by and asks if you'd like to see anything else added to the menu.  You say some ribs would be nice.  A LOT of the customer base agrees.  The next time you go to Airborne's, you see that they've added ribs.  So you get that.  And it's pretty good.  Then the manager comes by and asks if you'd like to see anything else on the menu.  You say some pig snout would be great.  But the customer base doesn't agree, so the next time you go, there's no pig snout.  BUT you can still get steak or ribs.  It's still a good place to eat.  You appreciate that they listened to you about the ribs.  There's things there you like to eat, and the management is very friendly.

 

Which restaurant do you go back to on a consistent basis?

I think a vision is more like having a menu.  You serve certain things, but not everything, and the things you do provide are cooked a specific way.  Not having a vision is like telling your customers "tell us what you want and we'll cook it for you".  This is a problem because very often people will come in with requests that your cooks just dont know how to make, or require ingredients that you dont stock, and if you try to stock enough stuff to make even half the people happy then your restaurant will be horribly inefficient and losing money like crazy.  Also, you may be able to cook all kinds of different things on demand, but none of it will be especially good because none of your cooks specialize in anything. 




#5289487 Question about Open World Survival Game Engines

Posted by 0r0d on 30 April 2016 - 05:41 PM

 

I'm confused.  It sounds like you have specific ideas about the game design, but nothing you said about what you bring to the table has anything to do with design.  Also, while you sound like you're confident in your ideas about the game, you also dont have any game design experience.  So presumably you'd need a design lead to handle the game design, and you're not planning to do any design work, but you also want 100% creative control.  That all doesnt add up to me.

 

I have ideas on how to start the game design.  But if the customers don't like "one" of my ideas, boom, out the door it goes.  Heck if they hate "all" of my ideas, boom, out the door they all go.  My ideas don't matter if the customers don't want it.  Same thing goes for the programmers, they can have ideas, but if they customers don't like it, boom all those ideas go out the door as well.

 

The problem in the industry is the developers spend all of the time working on their "vision" of the game, then the customers don't like it, so they go right back to their "vision" of the game.  Players get frustrated because it's not fun, leave, and the game fizzles out.

 

 

Well, listening to players is a good idea, but you cant listen to players when you start the project because there's too many people and they all have their own ideas.  This would be "design by committee" taken to the n'th degree.   What you need is a core idea of what your game will be and then you can try to flesh that out or find further focus, but you need to walk a fine line between being rigid and deaf and being too concerned with what your players or focus groups tell you.  I guarantee you that whatever feature you think of, some people will love it and some will hate it.  

 

I think you're making a common mistake of people who have never taken a game from concept to completion.  You're thinking that you can mine players for some great set of ideas and then you just have to implement those and you'll be golden.  It doesnt work that way.  Just because players say they want something, doesnt mean they actually want it.  Or, just because they want something doesnt mean it will be fun in the final game.  When you design a game you have to be willing to iterate a lot, and make changes and additions based on how the game develops.  That could mean player feedback, absolutely, but at the end of the day you need one person in charge and not a committee.  If that person doesnt have a vision, you're basically like a ship at sea without a rudder.

 

Another thing for you to consider is that if you're recruiting people to work on their spare time, or full time at their own expense, then they will want to work on something that they enjoy.  Promises of success years down the line might be nice, but if the project doesnt have a clear vision or it's something that the project contributors are not interested in themselves, then your chances of getting and keeping them in the project long term are slim.  And, since you're setting yourself up as the person with 100% creative control, anyone who joins you will expect a strong vision.  If you say "we'll do whatever the players want" that automatically tells me that I dont want anything to do with it because it will fail.




#5289470 Question about Open World Survival Game Engines

Posted by 0r0d on 30 April 2016 - 03:42 PM

I'm confused.  It sounds like you have specific ideas about the game design, but nothing you said about what you bring to the table has anything to do with design.  Also, while you sound like you're confident in your ideas about the game, you also dont have any game design experience.  So presumably you'd need a design lead to handle the game design, and you're not planning to do any design work, but you also want 100% creative control.  That all doesnt add up to me.




#5289364 Question about Open World Survival Game Engines

Posted by 0r0d on 29 April 2016 - 08:06 PM

I haven't shipped any games yet.  And I understand that might be a deterrent to some.  But if they understand the vision, they'll get why what I'm saying is crucial to the development of the game.

The thing is that there's a big difference between having a vision and executing that vision.  Having previously shipped games, especially ones where you took your idea from start to finish, shows that you can execute over the development period and you understand all that's involved.  This goes as well for finding your partners, like your tech lead for example.  Someone who's an experienced engineer is nice, but someone who's shipped multiple titles or developed their own game is much better.

 

 

p.s.  OrOd that is one of the things I'm worried about.  The team on Day 1 will probably not be the same as the team on Release Day.  Figuring out how to compensate those who "helped" but didn't "stick with it" is going to be a huge part of how much or how little legal trouble we will have.....lol

 

Yup, I would consider a vesting schedule that goes from 0 to whatever % that person gets over a reasonable time-frame, or perhaps based on milestones, or both.




#5289358 About Embedding Lua in Android

Posted by 0r0d on 29 April 2016 - 07:21 PM

Okay then, I guess I just keep them in a single pack for the code (iOS..., sigh).

 

I'm fine without JIT. The point is I want to fasten my development by not handling too much C++ code on gameplay parts.

 

I am fine to sacrifice performance for the sake of cutting my work hours, as long as it's not too much. I'll use my time to check this 'not too much' then (with confidence from Hodgman :lol:).

Then if it's a problem, I'll have to recheck my scope if it's small enough to be native only code.

 

 

Thanks guys!

 

If you're using Lua with the intent that it will reduce your development time, you might be very disappointed.  My recommendation if you want faster development time is actually to use whatever native language you use for your engine for your game code.  So in this case if you're using C++, then write your game code in C++.  Using Lua will have upfront costs (integrating Lua with the engine) as well as backend costs in terms of debugging and profiling.  Even if we assume that performance will in no way be an issue, I would not use Lua just because I thought it might be faster to write. 




#5289351 Question about Open World Survival Game Engines

Posted by 0r0d on 29 April 2016 - 06:40 PM

What about this:

 

Me = 20% equity, 12% profit sharing (with overall 100% control for business decisions)

Lead = 20% equity, 12% profit sharing

9 x Coder, Art, Level = 6.6% equity, 8.4% profit sharing

 

So I still have control, but you own more of the company?

 

I'd really start with a smaller team.  Seems like already planning for you + 10 people is very... optimistic.  Also, you dont know what recommendations your tech lead will make as far as how many coders you'll need.   Personally I'd start with: you (business + design), 1 tech lead, 1 art lead.   If you dont want to do design at all, then add 1 design lead.   Start with that, make some progress, grow the team, repeat.   You'd also want to decide how much equity you'll give initial recruits versus subsequent ones.  Logically you want to give more equity to early hires than later ones.  And of course some recruits should get more depending on their experience, how much time they can contribute, etc.  It all gets fairly complicated very quickly, but you need a plan that all the initial founders have agreed to... because all that equity will come from everyone's share.

 

I would also really talk to a lawyer because there's probably all kinds of considerations like what happens if you give someone 10% initially and then they drop out after a month?  You dont want to just give away equity unless someone has actually contributed, so you might want to make sure the equity vests over time.




#5289341 Question about Open World Survival Game Engines

Posted by 0r0d on 29 April 2016 - 04:55 PM

 

 

 

The equity number was total, but the profit sharing was each.  I'll put it out as all each:

 

Me = 51% Equity, 10% Profit Sharing

3 Programming Leads = 9.6% Equity, 10% Profit Sharing

7 Programmers = 2.8% Equity, 8.5% Profit Sharing

 

 

 

 

All programmers and 1 business/vision guy?  You need some artists and at least 1 designer in the mix.  Also I'd suggest just 1 programming lead.  You need one person in charge of your tech, not 3 that will fight with each other and come to you to make decisions, because you're not able to tell them what tech decisions are right or wrong.  Also finding 3 senior-level engineers to work on this wont be easy IMO.

 

I can understand the instinct to keep 51% for yourself, but first answer this: What do you bring to the table that warrants 51% of the equity?  If you came to me and asked me to be your lead engineer (and I had the time, interest, and belief in the project) I would probably not jump in for anything less than 20%.  The reason is that you really cant make the game without me (or someone else like me), it'd be a big time investment for me and I'm assuming I'd do most of the engineering work early on, and lastly I'm not sure why I couldnt just do the project on my own and recruit my own team.




#5289315 Question about Open World Survival Game Engines

Posted by 0r0d on 29 April 2016 - 02:18 PM

 

Roger, got it.  First thing is to get leads for the major programming departments.

 

The team will have to be recruited on vision.  The vision is there is a desperate need for this title in this one specific genre because so may developers have delivered up titles that didn't even come close to meeting the needs of the community.  The developers really don't understand the community, especially that it's a split community, with each segment wanting something different.  And they don't take the time to really find out deep down what the community wants.

 

Anytime you find a niche in the marketplace that is being underserved, there's money to be made there.  I could try to make the next Call of Duty, no way, I'd never even get close.  I could try to make some simple mobile game, no to that too, that market has too many different options / way too many competitors.  But in this one genre, because of what the devs have done to the gaming community, there is a vast unmet need that could be filled.

 

The no money thing is a problem, that's for 100% sure.  But when there is the promise of earning a large market share "in this one niche", there's also great rewards to be had.  So people will be doing some "free work" for the chance at "great rewards".  The structure of the company won't be "salaried" positions.  It'll be based on profit sharing.  Get more people in the game, get more money.

 

My biggest fear isn't finding people to help.  I know there are a lot of programmers that may have tried or may want to try to accomplish a survival title like DayZ.  

 

My biggest fear is keeping them working on it, getting it accomplished in a reasonable timeframe, and what to do with the "this guy worked 5000 hours on the game" but "this other guy worked 50 hours on the game".  When it launches, we can't bring everyone on board.  5000 hour guy is obviously in.  But what do you do about 50 hour guy?  I have to find a way to structure it so people know up front that if they put the full effort in, they're in for the full rewards.  But if they're not in it full time, then they get some money and are sent on their way?

 

I'm thinking that the leads of each department would determine who gets the positions once the company launches.  So the lead art guy would choose X number of artists, and we bring those on staff.  Everyone else just gets a smaller payout and moves on.

 

What do you think?

 

 

Yes, I've been in a very similar situation.  Here's your problems:

 

Without money you cant hire people fulltime, which means anyone you try to get to work on this fulltime will be paying out of their savings.  Most good engineers are already working and wont quit their jobs to join you, even if this were best-case scenario, which it's not.  They dont know you or your vision.  And they probably have families to feed and mortgages to pay.

 

This means that your pool of people who might work with you full-time is very, very small.

 

Then you have the option of getting people to work with you on their spare time.  I can also guarantee you that if you get these people you cant really rely on them to produce that much.  Working on your own personal projects on your spare time is bad enough.  Working with others on someone else's project is harder.

 

You also have the problem that if you gather a group they'll most likely be scattered around the country, or world.  This is another major problem for game development.  You could certainly do it, but having a team that's all together on-site is your best case situation.  

 

I hate to be the one throwing the wet blanket on your hopes, but without any money you're chances of getting anywhere with this are very small.




#5289305 About Embedding Lua in Android

Posted by 0r0d on 29 April 2016 - 01:48 PM

Yes you can embed LUA in Android apps as well as download LUA code for that app later on.  In iOS you're allowed to ship an app with embedded LUA, but you're not allowed to download scripts later.  Basically Apple wants to test your code when you submit the app to make sure it's compliant.  If you can download new code later through IAPs then that breaks the whole idea of them validating the app.

 

As far as performance, it depends on your usage.  The best practice as far as performance is to use native code, which will in almost all cases be faster than interpreted or even JIT'ed code.




#5289303 Question about Open World Survival Game Engines

Posted by 0r0d on 29 April 2016 - 01:43 PM

 

You're going about this completely backwards. Normally seeing you gather a team of engineers based on your pitch (and proper compensation of course), and you let them decide what technology to use for the project, since they'll be able to make a much more educated decision than you ever will.

 

The problem is I don't have a team yet.  And if I randomly assemble a team without choosing the engine first..........I'll get 3 unity guys, 4 unreal engine guys, 2 cryengine guys, and 1 guy who works on some smaller indie engine.

 

Can 3 unity guys, 3 unreal guys, 2 cryengine guys, and 1 random engine guy all code on any engine?  So if the team chose unreal, all 9 of those guys can do unreal?  If so, then I am coming at this completely backwards.

 

I apologize for my ignorance either way :)  I'm a business guy trying to assemble a team of rocket scientists, without knowing anything except "rockets go whoosh into sky"....lol

 

 

Since you're a business guy you wont be assembling a team of engineers.  You have no idea who to interview and how to interview them.  What you need is to get a lead engineer with experience leading teams and let him or her to the team building for the engineers.  Same for the artists and designers.

 

Out of curiosity, how do you plan to get a team of people to make this game?  You say you have lots of business and finance experience but no money.  I'm really curious how you intend to do this because I've been in a similar situation of trying to put together a team without money.  It's not easy.




#5288995 Implamenting a code

Posted by 0r0d on 27 April 2016 - 03:33 PM

Im trying to make a game but i dont know how to implament it into a code.

i have learned the language but in that sense i dont know how to implament it into an actually working game code would like some help if possible.

Thanks to all who help.

I'm not sure how much help you can get here, since your question is analogous to "I learned carpentry, can someone tell me how to build a house?"

 

You need to give more information and ask more specific questions.






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