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Chosker

Member Since 23 Aug 2001
Offline Last Active Jul 13 2015 03:51 AM

Posts I've Made

In Topic: Designing a good feel ARPG melee combat system

08 October 2014 - 02:47 PM

I'm not sure what to do to remedy the fact that enemies run towards you. Maybe they should get close, then do something like boxers do when they circle. Adding a random time delay to their hits might also help to make it more interesting (although some games have extremely predictable enemies yet stay quite entertaining),

I thought Skyrim is your main reference? play it again, but check out how the enemies behave. you might as well watch some (real) swordfighting videos to understand movement a little bit better, although they might be too static for your liking. circling around would be a good addition IMO.

adding a random time delay would be a good first step as well. it all depends on how deep you want to go for programming your AI, which should translate to how smart or varied you want your enemies to be.

and all of this depends on what you expect your game flow to be like. do you expect the player to kill lots of enemies with little AI (Diablo, Serious Sam, or your best known modern zombie shooter) or is it more about having fewer but more interesting and challenging encounters?

 

 

On physics and biomechanics, I didn't think about things like that because of the great Realism vs. Fun argument. I am way more into fun than realism on this project, as opposed to your game, which seems to try to accurately portray swordfighting. I will still add some more physicality though.

 

And yes, I am aiming more for the 'A' part of ARPG. This is more casual FPS-style.

I don't see why Realism vs. Fun should be an argument, you can have both, or none, and it's also a matter of what's fun for every person. To me it's more fun to play the more realistic combat of Chivalry vs. the less realistic combat mechanics of Minecraft. Many years ago Counterstrike came out and it attempted a more realistic approach of a shooter vs. the more arcadey shooters from back then, and it was much more fun for many people. and if my game's combat wasn't fun (for me at least) I would've changed it long ago.

you also have a different form of realism: you can die. Minecraft's combat was fun because it was realistically dangerous

 

realism/fun aside, the fact of the matter is that you need to define a limit for the player's actions to an extent, and you already have the most basic example: there's a (small) cooldown between the player's attacks as opposed to allowing every click as a valid attack. it's the same for the guns in a shooter (at the very least there's a minimum fire interval).

from there on you can build up on it, by designing different limitations and actions. for example crouching in an FPS makes you smaller (harder to be aimed) but it also makes you move slower.

it's up to you to design how and where you would want to limit the player's actions, and how to make these interact with eachother (rock-paper-scissors)

 

 

 

Also, I ask that you guys talking about Chosker's game start a new thread or PM each other.

 

 I agree and that's why I initially said I didn't mean to advertise. however even if mine or Thaumaturge's game aren't Skyrim, I would've thought you to be interested in knowing how they work


In Topic: Designing a good feel ARPG melee combat system

08 October 2014 - 12:21 PM

I checked the stream (StarMire: just forward to 21:30). I agree with the comments from Thaumaturge

also I see a complete lack of sense of physics and biomechanics. you can spam the attack and get maybe 3 attacks in one second. there's no cooldown, no inertia, no penalty for missing an attack, no way for the enemies to block your attacks, or any other interesting factors beside attacking. the fact that the enemies run towards you like zombies doesn't help either

 

for some games having a sword attack is enough to call it a 'melee fighting system'. it usually boils down to something like "I was hit 8 times but I hit the enemy 15 times, so I won". Skyrim goes just a little bit beyond this (with blocking, stamina and staggers) but the "I can pause to drink potions" feature ruins all of this (plus aiming and body movement / distance is meaningless)

personally I have to say that a sword attack is only the beginning, and the real fun starts when attacks can be blocked causing a flow of back-and-forth attack attempts and blocks, making all combat decisions much more meaningful.

 

 

StarMire, on 08 Oct 2014 - 07:29 AM, said:

Great references those! +1

 

The danger, of course, with such freedom can be disorientation.  You have to be careful with camera, and making the controls manageable.

 

 

indeed, but at this point I'm assuming the audience target (within the RPG world) is more the people familiar with FPS's rather than jRPG's - and from makuto's video I think it's safe to say he's aiming for something like this too

 

 

 

---

 

StarMire, on 08 Oct 2014 - 07:29 AM, said:

 

Chosker, on 07 Oct 2014 - 11:56 PM, said:

I myself am making a game of this swordfighting genre. here's a [ link ] to a 6 months old video, despite it lacks quite some new features and better combat flow it does give a good sense of what it is like. I'm not meaning to advertise, it's just that if you're interested I could invite you to my testers group so you can try it for yourself (on the condition that feedback is provided smile.png )

It looks awesome.  Is that an open invitation? biggrin.png Is there somewhere I can read more about your project?  I didn't see much on the site.

 

it's not an open invitation, but we could arrange it smile.png

also yes my website is just placeholder but [my blog] has much more info about it.

 

 

Thaumaturge, on 08 Oct 2014 - 5:19 PM, said:

 

That looks rather cool! If I may ask, how does the player control attacks in your game? I'm doing something similar myself, and am curious about your approach. (The download in the first post is old; the latest posted here should be in my last post in that thread (at time of writing).)

I know you're doing something similar, I was the first guy to reply to your thread biggrin.png

in my game the player controls how to attack like in Mount&Blade - you move your mouse up, down, left or right, and then click with the mouse.

I also added an optional alternative where instead the player needs to click and hold the mouse button, then move the mouse up/down/left/right, and then let go of the mouse button. my testers' opinions are divided between the two methods

on top of that there's some buttons that don't need mouse movement, like blocking or kicking, which are just regular keypresses.


In Topic: Designing a good feel ARPG melee combat system

07 October 2014 - 03:56 PM

I agree, we should have a video smile.png

 

have you tried some of the medieval swordfighting games out there? it's kind of a genre of its own and offers much more depth than Skyrim (which I love as a game overall, but the combat is shallow and dull). I'm talking about games like Mount&Blade, Chivalry: Medieval Warfare or War of the Roses.

Unlike Skyrim these offer freedom to choose different attack directions (either by mouse movement or by different buttons), and unlike the 'Souls games they rely on focusing the camera view on the enemy and aiming (first-person WASD movement and mouselook) and having more realistic limitations for movement (no rolling around)

 

I myself am making a game of this swordfighting genre. here's a [ link ] to a 6 months old video, despite it lacks quite some new features and better combat flow it does give a good sense of what it is like. I'm not meaning to advertise, it's just that if you're interested I could invite you to my testers group so you can try it for yourself (on the condition that feedback is provided smile.png )


In Topic: Single Combat with the Sword: A Prototype (feedback requested)

13 July 2014 - 04:00 AM

im naturally atracted to swordfighting games so I gave this a try. and I liked it

it feels natural to move the sword with the mouse like that, and since this is a duel fight with the view locked at the enemy you don't have the typical problem of the genre (my own swordfighting game included) of needing the mouse for something else (rotating the view)

 

I found two flaws:

- attacking doesn't quite work as you described it. the instructions say 'swipe the mouse with the left mouse button held'. this would mean I need to click and hold, then drag. but that didn't quite feel like it because just by moving one pixel counts as a drag, and this sensitivity makes it impossible to get the attack the way I intend it to.

it felt more effective to move the mouse first, and mid-movement just click the mouse button

- you can spam attacks indiscriminately, and the game becomes extremely easy

 

was it fun? yes, it's a fresh take on swordfighting

how challenging was it? not that much after the first try. the collision detection is way too broad and generic (ie. at any angle will your sword block the enemy's) so it's really easy to turtle. not so easy to hit him, sure, but if you keep parrying eventually you get there (or if you spam attacks). I also felt we both had too much health points, but maybe that's just my own taste of a more 'life or death' scenario in swordfights.

 

 

now you mention this is a game mechanic, so this tells me this is only a small part of your game. if you have the time to improve it and add variety I'd say it's worth it.

 

btw it works in win8, but MS smartscreen filter didn't like the installer at all


In Topic: common default control mappings for fps/rpg's

13 April 2014 - 03:13 PM

swordplay is fast, but the movement is completely different than running around. and I'm only speaking about the movement here.

even in those errol flynn movies where they duel with swords as light as a fencing rapier, you can see the movement is more like walking back and forth, and in circles, with heavy forward "impulses" when attacking. this is completely different from, say, the marathon running style in Skyrim when exploring, or players in a football match.

 

anyway let's not hijack your thread with my stuff, you'll hear about me and my project at some other time biggrin.png


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