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Member Since 19 Jan 2013
Offline Last Active Jun 14 2015 09:38 PM

#5032765 Official GameDev.net App

Posted by on 15 February 2013 - 01:06 PM

One simple (enough) goal: To facilitate/streamline productivity while accessing GameDev.net through a mobile setting, for free.

#5029030 Design:Development Ratio - What's your orientation?

Posted by on 05 February 2013 - 08:33 AM

First off, I would like to bring in the Moderator who banned Sir Morphia to attention. I've read all his post and have come to the conclussion that he has broken some forum rules but not under purpose bias. There is a language barrier which should have been taken into consideration by whichever Mod took this action. I believe it was done unjustly so, please take this into consideration or relinquish your moderator satus IMMEDIATELY.



@ Сэр Морфий: После первого чтения ваших сообщений я должен признать, что я originially думал, что ты человек с плохой словарь, который является, почему я disected ваше сообщение.
Прежде всего, я хотел бы принести в модератора, который запретил сэр Морфий внимание. Я прочитал все его сообщение и пришли к conclussion, что он нарушил некоторые правила форума, но не в целях смещения. Существует языковой барьер, который должны были быть приняты во внимание зависимости от того, моделирование приняла это решение. Я считаю, что это было сделано несправедливо поэтому, пожалуйста, примите это во внимание, либо отказаться от ваших модератором степень готовности немедленно.
Однако вскоре я понял, после того, как ваш третий пост или так, чтобы вы были членс 2009 года. Это означает две вещи для меня: во-первых, вы избегали проблемы в течение длительного времени это может означать одно из двух: либо Вы, действительно хорошо скрывать вы огнемет или вы законным членом форумах языковой барьер. Я считаю, что это последний. Я пытаюсь получить "больше" модератор внимание с этого поста в надежде поднимая запрет статус и будет пытаться связаться с Вами лично с тем, что означает, я считаю, это возможно. Если я неправильно и упустил некоторые вы действиям (в чем я сомневаюсь у меня есть), то мне жаль тратить время anyones. Я верю, что вы умны и ценная часть этого форума, хотя, который является частью того, почему я ответил на такой длины, чтобы защитить вас, а также ответить так подробно и усилий. Я предположил вашим родным является русский языктак что я перевести это в надежде на смягчение ограничений нашей языковой барьер.




@Sir Morphia: Upon first reading your messages I must admit I originially thought you were someone with a poor vocabulary which is why I disected your message.


However, I soon realized after your third post or so that you have been a memember since 2009. This meant two things to me: One, you've avoided trouble for a long time which could mean one of  two things; You are either, really good at hiding you're a flamer OR you are a legit member of the forums with a language barrier. I believe it is the latter. I am attempting to gain "greater" moderator attention with this post in hopes of lifting your ban status and will be attempting to contact you personally with whatever means I find possible. If I am incorrect and have missed some of you're actions (which I doubt I have) then I am sorry for wasting anyones time. I do believe you are an intelligent and valuable part of this forum though, which is part of why I have responded at such lengths to defend you as well as reply with so much detail and effort. I surmised your native toungue is Russian so I aim to translate this in hopes of easing the restrictions of our language barrier.


I think you are trying to gradually understand me!
Vision of Gameplay as the ChessBoard: it is soonely the word-revolver.
I know people who from UbiSoft , but I did not say that I work in UbiSoft.


I'm trying biggrin.png


Yes, it will soon be a more common notion if it isn't already. Game Design isn't respected nor is it covered in definition as much as I'd like it to be. "Vision of Gameplay as the ChessBoard" will hopefully some day be the common accepted truth. Design isn't checkers as some here would like to believe, it is akin to Chess. Like design, chess (which is a game of skill which many can play and few will ever master or even be considered skilled at) is beyond the depth some will ever understand.


Understood, excuse my misundertanding, I did not see the video.


That is, you did not watch the video - you, like most of the other all the same, or more then one computer bots (programs), because of your text is not true.


You're right, I responded from my phone that day so I didn't even know there was a video attatched until recently.


And I said that we needed to account for AmazonPayments for Kickstater.com


Makes sense and I totally agree. This is what you meant by:


As of right now to think about KickStater.com :
who have Amazon account - USA and UK (I with UA)



would say that I am Freelancer - Independent Manager (yes GameDevIndustry modern companies - just a "modern trash")


Ah, this elevates you to "Sir" status in my opinion/eyes lol.. You have far more expierience in the field than I do.


In translation: better to act. Will Write one hundred thousand Theme than those in the text and a Zero Result in the End. In EpiEnd none GameProduct and none Money : eating text or other it ?!


If I could paraphrase and translate: Actions speak louder than words. You can write a thousand themes (designs/concepts) and in the end have ZERO results. In "EpiEnd and GameProduct"; Not sure what these are honestly and I haven't looked them up yet so I cant offer a full translation/paraphrase but I think it basically means this: "Ideas = No money". This is further supported by "eating text or other it?!". Basically I think you meant that you can't live off of words alone lol


What was done on GameDev.net or GameDev.ru : nothing .. tell me again of Orientation of this Forums .


I think this counts as slandering/bashing of the forums which might be why you were banned upon first inspection. However, when the language barrier is taken into account I see it differently. You could of simply meant to say something like:


Что было сделано на GameDev.net или GameDev.ru: ничего .. скажите мне снова ориентации этой Форум.


Which in english probably sounds alot worse. I wouldn't know personally, but I speak multiple languages so I know things get lost in translation and are alot rougher on the cut.




Я надеюсь, это поможет вам сэра морфия, я чувствую личную ответственность за запрет видя, как вы чувствовали себя достаточно сильно о моем посте, чтобы ответить, а затем получить бан. Я надеюсь, что вы ответите скоро мой друг smile.png




I hope this helps you Sir Morphia, I feel personally responsible for your ban seeing as you felt strongly enough about my post to reply and subsequently get banned. I hope to see you reply soon my friend smile.png

#5028307 Project: Beat em up/hack and slash

Posted by on 03 February 2013 - 05:44 AM

I've recently started a project with two of my close friends. I'll be acting as the lead programmer. It is Frankies' (don't know what his forum name will be yet) brainchild so he will be the lead designer. Dvergr will be our lead Artist.


§• ɸ§


Project: Beat em up/hack and slash (working title)


The concept is simple enough but I was inspired to work on it nonetheless. Frankies' idea to combine the genres he envisioned is not entirely unique seeing as I've played something similar to it before (Castlevania: Symphony of the Night) but it was genius none the less.The mission statement is to create a 2D side scrolling beat em upstyle game with varying features from the hack/slash, adventure, rpg andfighting genres.
Engine: Game Maker 8.1
Graphics: Paint, Photoshop, Illustrator and (Jesses' Stuff)
Concept/SyncingEvernote, Paper, Pencil/Pen and "Word (wordpad) - format (.rtf/.doc)"
Brain Child/Lead Designer: Frankie aka DarkAbbys
Programmer/Junior Designer: Alfred L aka SinisterPride
Graphic Artist/Artist/Designer: Jesse aka Dvergr


§• ɸ§



  • 2D Arcade Fighter Controls

- Combos

- Skills/spells activate by input (hadouken).

- Light and heavy/low and high punchs and kicks.


  • Character Development: Skill and Spell Tree(s)/Stat Development


- Melee Skills

- Weapon/Weapon type Skills.

- Spells (hadouken and such).

- Stats (str and int for now).

  • Items/Gear/Equipment


Enemies drop loot and equipment.


- Equipment shows on character (armor and weapons [like in "Castlevania: Symphony of the Night" with Alucard]).

- Weapon types associate with weapon skills.

- Rare equipment which will be "high grind"/low drop rate.


§• ɸ§

As of now we're still in the design process but I will be starting some scripting with basic sprites tonight if all goes well at work (in other words if I'm not tired from my day job(s) lol).



§• ɸ§


§• ɸ§

#5026475 Project: Alter Ego - Leveling/Stat Gain Mechanic

Posted by on 28 January 2013 - 01:29 PM

This is to finish answering a very important question posed by WavyVirus that went unaswered and I felt didn't fit/belong in my most recent thread about skills/spells and their development.



You may have covered this, but is there some scarce mana-like resource which would force the player to choose carefully which spells they cast and when?

Yes, I covered it partially but didn't state in detail how it related to limiting which spells they cast and when. The resource is called Will. Its' regeneration is affected by a few things. One of them is the health condition which I mentioned earilier in this post, Thirst. When you're character has been in combat for a while (even if he hasn't used magic much or at all) it affects their thirst which directly affects their will regeneration. This can be countered by drinking water mid fight or using certain Water Weaving techniques which drain some of your will but add additional will recovery. 
The way I proposed to limit/promote effective spell use is simple. Will regen will be ALOT lower during combat. Outside of combat it will regenerate at a decent pace which is still pretty low but will promote training while still posing a challenge. 
Aside from will recovering during resting (fast forwarding time) I wanted to implement a mechanic which is the equivalent to meditating. This would play out as a sort of minigame which focuses on timing and concentrating. It would be centered around things which would imitate focusing the mind. The main mechanics in the minigame would be things like landing a shifting bar on a marker, pressing a button at the end of a circle reaching an inner ring. Basically things that require timing and reflex. Doing so correctly would allow you to regenerate your will at a vastly improved rate per successful portion of the minigame. During the minigame your will regen will be higher as well. This will promote training/passive combat by allowing the person to start meditating and afk for a minute or two if they dont particularly enjoy or cant be bothered by the minigame.
Hope that helped further my point/clarify things happy.png 

#5026400 Design:Development Ratio - What's your orientation?

Posted by on 28 January 2013 - 09:52 AM

To continue the discussion in my first thread (hopefully more productively this time) I'd like to get your opinions/methods for starting and following through with a project seeing as they're are plenty of ways which lead to the same outcome. Some methods have advantages over others but when given the right circumstances, all realistic and proper routes lead to the same goal. Creating a game and finishing/entirely developing it.


My question is: How much do YOU design/plan when you set out to develop something?


There comes a point where we reach the extent of what the human mind can process accurately with only theory and design. However, not everyone has the same marker/limitation for that extent. My acute spatial and detail centered memory (I've been tested, Its borderline savantism) has allowed me to reach a level of design in my mind that not all can process or comprehend unless explained in detail through diagram/prototypes and demos. 


I am a one man team. Being so I don't have a deadline/time constraint. Not having a deadline nor feeling the need to rush into a pure development sense has allowed me to reach that inevitable point in almost each concept, mechanic and general design where theorizing just won't cut it. If I were to become a part of a team where I am now expecting people to put in their own time, then yes I would consider time restraints and how to most effectively manage their time. 


When I reach that point where theorizing just wont cut it, I consider my design 75% complete. The other 25% is only attainable through means of testing and developing. I consider my design(s) (not the entire project or mechanic/feature even) to be near its end basically when I'm prepared to test and develop. At this point, I would only consider a mechanic/feature to be 15-20% complete at MOST. The design process isn't complete in my mind until the project or mechanic/feature is itself atleast 50% complete and has a working model that proves its theory and functionality/feasibility.


#5025761 Ideas are a dime a dozen...

Posted by on 26 January 2013 - 08:42 AM

Rofl.. Yup, I'm 100% sure of it now. You're opinion means nothing to me. Trust me, it's not because of HOW you're saying something. It's because you gingerly assume you know EVERYTHING that I have done towards each stated point. You know nothing about me yet since you're first post you have had all sort of pretentious,condescending, assumptious remarks. Yes, you have the right to comment on what you THINK is wrong on my approach, yes you can ASSUME all you want about how little I've done, and yes you can bash any statement and opinion I may make or have. But no, you won't sit here with all certainty and tell me that my efforts aren't what I know them for a fact to be. I've lost all respect for your opinion Sir, you can choose to keep replying however you want but I won't give you the benefit of reading anything you say from here on. Again, I'd like a staff or moderator to interject please.

#5025741 Ideas are a dime a dozen...

Posted by on 26 January 2013 - 06:38 AM

You know what.. Legendre.. Do me a favor. Next time you feel like saying something you know is going to be a useless comment of no worth to anyone but your condescending ego, keep it to yourself. I'd like to bring in a mod or staff to share their opinion on this because frankly I've tried to be nice and I've tried to honestly take your criticism/feedback in an unbiased fashion. I've come to the conclusion that although you may have contributed quite a few times in ways I appreciate, the majority of your post have been of negative/tactless opinion and commentary. Either say something constructive (doesn't have to be nice, you can tear me a new one if you don't agree) or don't say anything at all, got it?

#5025693 Ideas are a dime a dozen...

Posted by on 26 January 2013 - 01:42 AM

Kinda proved my point with your statement but *yawn* to exhausted argue the point.. Gnite ppk

#5024880 Project: Alter Ego - Leveling/Stat Gain Mechanic

Posted by on 23 January 2013 - 04:18 PM

Thank you for being the first few to respond. It gets the ball rolling wink.png 
§• ɸ§
Very valid points, points that I was aware of while working on the more technical aspects of the design theory/concept.
What you mentioned is somewhat displayed in Elder scrolls IV: Oblivion. The "Athleticism" and "Stealth" skills could be largely exploited with similar methods as you mentioned.
I have a few propositions in the form of checks and balances to avoid those methods of exploits:
- All passive stat gains have varying conditions which must be met for them to activate.
- On top of these varying conditions, passive stat gain is in terms of decimal gain. In other words you gain FAR less passive expierience/stat from the passive methods than you do from the active ones.
There was one last thing I thought out but its on the more technical side and most players wouldn't see it. Its a "anti-macro" code built into the game. Essentially it works on the principle of algorithm detection. The code will constantly and passively monitor command inputs and will catch patterns when they repeat. This code posed a programming hazard because after a long period of recording the information has to be dumped or else the load is too much for the engine to process. I figured I could set a timer (its set for about 24 minutes or an ingame day) to dump the recorded commands and start monitoring all over again. This means a player (if they found out about the 24 min aspect of the code) would have to record a full 24 minutes worth of actions into a macro. If the code detects anything fishy, all stat gain (both passive and active) halt until the end of the 24 minute cycle. That means if people even try to grind in a cheesy exploitive way they get the boot lol
§• ɸ§
The Callous and Scarring system was alot less confidently proposed as you may have seen. This is because as you said there are alot of rammifications and possible exploits when it comes to something along the lines of health. Especially when healing effects are taken into account.
These were my propositions to implement the C&S mechanic while counteracting possible exploits:
There are only two forms of healing within the game
Although there is no dying in A.E. (its explained in the story/lore) you don't want to know about the "near death mechanics and penalties" they're harsh. Theres also no "loading to a previously safe state" to avoid dealing with recovery time either because an auto save mechanic is implemented for every 10% of health lost.
Health regeneration in the common and traditional sense of gaming isn't a default mechanic in the world of A.E.
The forms of healing are as follows:
First aid
Is time affected; you have to give a wound time to heal after properly dressing/tending to it. The game time to real world time ratio will be something along the lines of an hour in game equals a minute in real life. This should give you a sense of what a week of recovery would feel like if theres 24 minutes per game day. Extreme wounds can heal within moderate amounts of passive gameplay (in game week or two for a cauterized or stitched wound to show improvement) as long as you don't exert yourself and stay away from combat.
Can you say passively forced way of suggesting exploration of other features? laugh.png It could cause some less patient people to shy away from the game but its my punishment for recklessness/attempting to exploit tongue.png 
This is the strongest deterent to exploiting the C&S system I could come up with because people will choose to be more cautious of how much damage they take in order to avoid such long periods of down time. Fiddling with crafts and such is fun but I myself wouldn't want to be forced to only play that way for the next hour due to being reckless. The other choice would be afking but who really wants to keep doing that because theyre failing at not taking damage? happy.png
This comes in the form of a high level self cast technique. If you've read the weaver section in my first post on A.E. this will be easier to understand. 
Magic induced healing comes in a few forms which encompass some low level and higher end techniques. 
Lower end techniques include: 
Magical Cauterization: You basically burn yourself to close a wound. Essentially you hurt yourself to keep yourself from reaching the near death state.
Earthen Suture: Dirt bandade lol.. Its temporary so the effect breaks before any real recovery time occurs. The penalty here occurs when people realize they can cast it a few times and try to exploit it while not dressing their wound properly. Infection occurs and the rate your health was dropping from the wound increases. An antibiotics (antidote) as well as having to deal with tending to the wound now need to be dealt with.
§• ɸ§
[spoiler alert] - I havent posted details about this advanced aspect of weaving. Theres a high end brach of weaving that allows for hybrid/combined use of the elements. I wont go into detail here but it is about to be exposed.
§• ɸ§
Higher end Techniques include:
Druids' Rejuvination: This is an advanced spell which takes a moderate amount of mastery in both Earth Weaving and Water Weaving. Aside from having mastery in both elements you would need to discover the spell (my upcoming post on skills/spells will explain this). The effect is a clean clay suture which closes the wound for as long as required. To limit use I employed a will drain mechanic while it is active. This only applys to the regeneration aspect of the spell. the suture works just as well as a bandage or cauterization and would stay in effect after the spell is no longer active.
This hasn't been stated anywhere yet but, after you run out of will, you begin using health to fuel your spells.
It also activates Health Regeneration (which isnt a constant/default mechanic in A.E. as I mentioned) up to 33% of your maximum health. Druids rejuvination is the ultimate healing spell. Due to its will draining mechanic as well as the slow rate of will recovery by default in A.E. the use of it is limited.
Dragons' Heart: This is another advanced spell which takes moderate mastery of both Fire Weaving and Water Weaving. It is easier to attain but has a drawback built into it. The effect is cauterizing all of your wounds from the inside out which closes the wounds entirely while bringing you down to 5% Health. In other words you don't wanna do this on the run or mid fight. As in Druids' Rejuvination, you gain Health Regeneration up to 20% of your maximum health. It doesn't take a constant amount of will to use but the effect in place to keep it from being exploited is that your will drops down to 5% as well when your health does.
§• ɸ§
I hope this was sufficient to answer your questions smile.png 
Again, thank you for being the first few to post, I really appreciate it biggrin.png
§• ɸ§

#5024601 Project: Alter Ego - Leveling/Stat Gain Mechanic

Posted by on 22 January 2013 - 11:05 PM

This is my second post/share on Project: Alter Ego. Thankfully this concept/mechanic is alot simpler so I won't be flamed for the length tongue.png


§• ɸ§


In this post I'll be covering my proposal for a stat gain system which I've dubbed The "Growth" System (or just Growth). It was largely inspired by common sources as FFC (Fable & Elder Scrolls) but has one more notable contributor which I would like to bring attention to.


§• ɸ§


This last contributor is a Indie/Hobbyist developed game with humble beginings which is still alive and kicking today. Although I don't play it very much nowadays I still have a large of amount of admiration, respect and interest in the main concepts executed within this game. The name of that game is Eternal Lands.


You can read about it here - http://el-wiki.net/


If you're interested in playing it/exposing yourself to what I believe are some great concepts you can download and play for free here - http://www.eternal-lands.com/


§• ɸ§


The "Growth" System


The Second key feature is my idea on a leveling/stat gain system which I've dubbed Growth. The Growth system is the core of the Mastery system and vice versa.


(Refer to my upcoming post on the "Mastery" system to see exactly what I mean.) 


Basically, your ego develops his base stats according to what he does instead of the traditional assignment of points to specific stats. In other words you have to use what you want to develop just as you would in person.


For example: 


- Wielding a sword and shield will bolster your Strength (your physical power and ability to lift and wield larger weapons and wear heavier armor).


-All physically taxing activities will slowly build your Stamina (how quickly you fatigue).


-Using daggers will increase your Agility (how fast you attack and your overall movement speed) and slightly boost your Dexterity (your overall control of your body, accuracy and nimbleness).


-A wielder of a bow would gain Dexterity primarily with some Agility.


-Just the same a Weaver (aka caster) would gain Will (your "spiritual stamina" and the equivalent to mana in A.E.) after unleashing a spell. Weavers would also gain Wisdom (your overall understanding. this would affect the potency of cast in the long run and eventually help further your proficiency with the energies you're wielding. Other games use the name Intelligence for their equivalent) while gathering and molding energy.


§• ɸ§


Aside from all of those active ways of increasing specific stats, I've thought of a few ways (and am still in the process of applying more) that you could passively gain a specific stat.


For instance:


Wearing heavy metal armor would passively increase your Strength and cause you to fatigue easier which would push your Stamina to develop faster than it normally would.


All the crafting related ways of gaining stats can also be considered a passive stat gaining method.


(Refer to my upcoming "Crafting/Profession system" post to understand in full)


§• ɸ§


One of the last Growth related ideas I'm still developing is a way of gaining permanent Health. The means of gaining would revolve around a sort of Scarring/Callous system. By Scarring/Callous I mean you'd have to take damage and recover from it to gain some permanent health.


In order to avoid classes such as Weaver or Rogue types from becoming too durable I plan on adding a simple deterrent mechanic. The lighter the armor class the higher the chance of being critically hit which would drive the lighter classes away from trying to take too many hits or build too much health comfortably. Other means of control will be applied to this system although this coupled with the Hybrid Checks/Balances I mentioned in my first post should suffice for now.


§• ɸ§


Once again, I would like to thank any of you reading this ahead of time for taking your time to read what I’ve written as well as for any feedback that may come along with it which is much appreciated.

§• ɸ§
Alfred L. aka SinisterPride
§• ɸ§


First post - Project: Alter Ego - An introduction

#5024383 Ideas are a dime a dozen...

Posted by on 22 January 2013 - 12:36 PM

What is a common misconception people like me, oops I mean "Idea Guys" (.. silly idea guys) have?


That game design (thoughts, organizational aspects, iteration) is more cerebral, artistic and creative than YOU proposed when you vaguely defined Game Design as: 


Taking an idea (existing or brand new) and making it work in an actual product under resource/time constraints


You were so "precise" in your statement that you could of been talking about a magic 8 ball and defined it the same way. Which is why, at the time, I recycled some words within the surrounding post to stay relevant to the topics at hand and said:


What you defined is functional game development. Game design is in fact more about daydreaming and spewing ideas. Where they meet, tying into what you're saying, lies within the balance of ideology and functionality/feasibility.


Take note of the wording. I never said Game Design is in fact ALL/MOSTLY/ABOUT daydreaming and spewing ideas. I even admitted to Sir Sloper that I made a poor choice of words which is where your retort comes into play.


Design is far more cerebral, artistic and creative than -mere daydreaming. +Legendre was painting it out to be.


Makes more sense now that I paid more attention to what you chopped off. Its ok, you've made some points which I admit have shut me up or changed my perspective/made me think. However, the "Idea Guy" can totally prove you wrong some times too.


Speaking of which:


On the contrary: creativity and artistry is about skillful, innovative use of the available tools, materials or techniques or the ability to invent/create new ones. Well designed games are those that are able to tell a compelling story or craft amazing gameplay within the given constraints.


On the contrary? What are you countering? The quote you highlighted was taken out of context and spoke of the more mathematical/logical/scientific disciplines within the development process. They're jobs DO in fact leave little to no space for artistry. The only part which was even remotely close to what that quote was refering to was the mention of creating tools. In case you didn't know (but ofcourse you do, you're not an idea guy like me) creating tools is something that has to be done often from scratch by Programmers to aid Graphic Artist as well as streamline work for other Programmers.


Also, your comment:


.. skillful, innovative use of the available tools, materials or techniques ..


.. is so vague that you basically described what 95% of all Craftsmen/Artisans/Creators do. Kudos wink.png


As you may already know, I was making a comparison and subsequent correction of a common seperation/horrid definition of Design/Development. I was making a differentiation in definition which many seem to have a very failed concept of..


Don't worry, I'll break it down a bit here:


Definitions taken directly from Www.Dictionary.com


Development: the act or process of developing; growth; progress:


Developing: undergoing development; growing; evolving.



1. to prepare the preliminary sketch or the plans for (a work to be executed), especially to plan the form and structure of.


2. to form or conceive in the mind; contrive; plan.



So what does this tell me, the "Idea Guy"?


It tells me that I have an Idea of where and how to show that there is a line drawn which clearly states what is and isn't design within the industry. The confusion which so many others seem to have stems from a misunderstanding and generalization of terms which I will attempt to mostly clarify in one a simple statement.



Design is inarguably a part of Development within the gaming industry (as well as many other industries) and therefore IS a form of Development. Development however, is comprised of multiple aspects some of which (NOT all) comprise elements of Design.


Therefore, Design is ALWAYS Development while Development does NOT always entail Designing.



I hope that was clear and accurate. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.



I'll now address some more direct comments on my work. If I didn't know how to receive criticism and opinions I would of taken direct offense to the manner in which some of this was stated.


However, the way I see it, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I can either choose to agree or disagree. In essence, my choices are to bicker like an immature little child and respond in a detrimental fashion or I accept your input in a productive way even if I don't agree with it. I did in fact take more offense originally before rereading and editing this. Reason being that I felt you know nothing of what is developed out side of ONE facet which I've shared. Nor do you know much of anything about what knowledge I may possess aside from what you assume to know about me. What makes it worse is that this is all according to what little I have shared pertaining mostly to my opinions since introducing myself a couple of days ago. As I said to Sir Sloper, I haven't claimed to be anything more than a Gamer/Fanboy. I am not an industry proffesional nor do I even consider myself an official hobbyist designer/developer. Sadly, the commentary on my game idea bothered me less than what I presumed as you insulting my intelligence. I humbly apologize if I have offended you Sir Legendre.


Nonetheless, here goes my response to your commentary on my ideas:


Take for example, the combat in your "Project: Alter Ego". Given the constraints of the PS3/Xbox controller, you try to design a fun combat experience for your user. You also need to consider the constraint of how this combat control system fit in your overall game, and how feasible it is to implement vs a simpler system. You also should prototype, test and iterate. You might have to come up with creative ways to pull off certain features given the limitations of the controller. This is design.

What isn't design: ignore all the constraints and assume that you can motion capture all user actions in-game and somehow allow your users to perform difficult moves like somersaults and fencing moves. Then proceed to daydream a game where users participate in epic medieval battles in a virtual reality with life-like detail. Takes zero effort, zero creativity and is completely worthless.


I've noticed you use the word constraint quite often. It sparked a memory (I have a bit of a accurate memory for detail if my mention of Rygar and Bushido blade didn't demonstrate it [I was about 7 years old when Bushido Blade was fresh on the  market if it puts anything into perspective]) of something which although I don't remember where I read or heard it, stuck to me: 


"A good designer takes into account their teams' as well as their own strengths, weaknesses, tools/skill sets, resources, and available time. Knowing these things very well, a good designer sets a realistic perimeter of what CAN be acchieved. However, limits are NEVER drawn, they are reached. A good designer knows this."




Your comments:


.. need to consider how.. combat control system fit in your overall game.. feasible to implement vs a simpler system.


The combat system is one of the key features and core mechanics. How could I:


1) Not consider every other aspect around a key feature as well as consider a key feature around every other aspect.

2) A simpler system which is common place to REPLACE a key feature? wheres the challenge and attempted innovation in that? sleep.png


..should also protoype.. creative ways to pull off... limitation of controller.. -*bright smile, thumb up, wink*- "THIS is Design!"-


Good point, I actually have to fight my perfectionist tendancies/urges all the time in the name of productivity (look at how many average edits each of my replies and post have sleep.png its a curse and a gift lol). So I understand everyones concern with Q&A and prototyping quite well. Its unrealistic to think you can land something from concept to final product without tweaking, testing and generally stressing the hell out of that product in every form to squeeze out every tiny bug/unexpected/unintended outcome you possibly can. Why does it seem everyone assumes I'm against fine tunning my work? laugh.png


This is the end of my reply to Sir Legendre. Again I'm sorry for my childish behavior and I humbly offer my apologies.



I said it somewhere on here the other day, I have my reasons for why I never actively stepped passed any of the various forms of design. Aside from emotional uncertainty, as I also said somewhere, I'm human and not all of my decisions are based solely on logic. That doesn't mean I'm not willing to do anything other that write in order to forward my work and passion.


I'm not one to boast or speak of my achievements and capabilities with high regard but in this case I'll push it just a bit.


I've done my own concept art, written my own lore, designed my own technical input/motion layouts, taught myself basic scripting in hopes of being able to atleast contribute or do some of the programing, designed skill and spell systems and trees, developed the way(s) I want to track expierience which isn't as mainstream as we're used to/have seen, designed multiple menus, huds, UIs and concepts for tracking things that are usually displayed on huds without having to clutter the screen, extensively thought of time mechanics to interact with varying other mechanics in the world enviroments as well as for character development, explored methods for online multiplayer which localizes server loads between players wishing to play with each other (sort of like lan with a bit of a twist in networking) which would in theory allow large gatherings of adventurers without requiring dedicated servers by spreading the load of bandwidth allocation to each individual player wishing to play, developed professions which tie into character development in a direct way not just as varying side benefits, extensively tied the environment into said professions while theoretically eliminating extensive rendering or resources in the enviroment when entering and moving around areas, theorized on ways to minimize input lag by uniforming control and response methods between the world and the player/npcs (this ties into the combat system as well).. and other stuff that I probably cant think of off the top of my head.. 


This is why I was so adamant by Lady SunAndShadows post. I approach from a design heavy perspective, but that doesn't mean I dont understand and take other aspects of development into account.


Last bit of general commentary on what I feel is unfair and would like to see less of around here.



- It seems some people feel strongly about triggers (things I have said or are commonly said)  which leads to a automatic dismissal and subsequent tossing of everything that comes along with a given comment or proposed topic. This is unfair, we should strive to look past our prejudices and disect/attack the topics at hand, not our assumptions of what whoever said it may be like.


- As soon as some of us are convinced/assume that someone is "THAT" type of guy often refered to as the "Idea Guy" (which I've taken a liking to calling myself lol) a subconciously (or possibly conscious) trend of finding fault in just about everything that person can say occurs. I think we lose so many oppurtunities to educate and constructively contribute due to this.


- Some of us (I can be accused of doing it or coming off this way at times as well) have a "high-horse" attitude and scoff at ideas which is never an appropriate/mature response. We should take oppurtunities like this to either enlighten or pose a constructive response not condescend.


My ShiGong, Grandmaster Alan Lee once told me something which I will never forget:


We all start as novices in all given respects. It is the responsibility and duty of the more experienced to educate, lead and protect the inexperienced.


Regardless of what the case maybe I would appreciate it, if above all, we:


-Stop automatically assuming that inexperience is equivalent to lack of knowledge.


-That unwillingness to follow certain "standard paths" is a sign of doomed failure. We all walk our own paths in life, Game design and Development is no exception.


-Mainly, I would appreciate it if we could stop bashing each others strengths, methods and preferences. As Lady SunAndShadow so eloquently put it:


I think of design and development as different types of activities, but they're not wholly separate in that both are essential to artistic creation.  A successful creator is by definition able to do both, so perhaps the reason why you have difficulty picturing a designer who does not like developing is that they are set up to fail at actually creating anything.  But that doesn't mean they don't exist, and a few succeed by either forcing themselves to do the development like it's exercise or homework, or by using money as leverage to get others to do the development.



On a more personal note:


If I had listened and taken to heart all the negative commentary through out my years of pursing this "hobby", I would of never been able to consider setting foot on the path to become a designer. In fact, after my first attempt at college (which failed in case you were wondering) in which I studied Multimedia Development with a focus in Game Design, I left the path to later pursue a career as a writer/artist and almost didn't set foot back into it. This should put my OP into perspective in regards to some of the vague details in which I praise and thank Sir Sloper.


This may all have seemed like a huge vent but I'm confident that aside from being that it has plenty of useful perspective and information. I am simply making a stand. If anyone has anything to say to or about me on ANYTHING within this post that does NOT pertain to design or development. Please, feel free to private message me. I'd be more than glad to hear you out if you feel I am wrong for saying anything I have said. But I will not have bickering that is of no benefit to others littering my thread.


 I'm gonna go through hell editing this sleep.png Guess averaging out 90wpm isnt as fun when you have to go back and edit lol tongue.png 


Edit: I did go through hell editing that laugh.png


I'd like to thank all of you who down voted my original version of this reply/post as well as Sir Milcho for private messaging me and opening my eyes wider to the error of my ways.



Alfred Liriano



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#5024111 Ideas are a dime a dozen...

Posted by on 21 January 2013 - 06:47 PM

@Sir Sloper: First off, thank you for gracing my thread with your presence biggrin.png 
You've been a huge fountain of information, inspiration and have unknowingly shown me tough love. I can honestly and without question say that you are one of the main reasons I did not drop my long-term passion for game design and development. If it weren't for your input I would be content with being a gamer, focusing on my writing career, and would have long since discarded any notion of design even as a hobby. Although I don't consider myself above or much further than a Gamer/Fanboy I have to thank you for making your experience and knowledge so easily accessible.
I have to disagree with your post though (to some extent).
Yes, my choice of words could have been more accurate. However, it was taken out of context. I'd wholeheartedly agree if the quoted statement stood alone. As it was intended, the commentary was about comparing Design & Development. I meant to say that design (thoughts, organizational aspects, iteration) is more cerebral, artistic and creative than Legendre was painting it out to be. While development (programming, 3D modeling, and such) is more logical, adheres to more rigid constraints leaving little room for artistry and there is often no way around certain things. By nature, these disciplines in the development phase are unequivocal with indisputable aspects.
I have in fact read article (aka lesson) 14 multiple times at different points through out the years. I know exactly what it is you wish to enlightenment me on. Thanks again Sir smile.png 
@Archaris: Hello again Archaris, glad to have you back in the conversation  smile.png

You made some good points which made me conscious of the unbiased/varying nature of my perspective (if only by actively acknowledging it; I know its there lol) with this:

I could agree to some people liking only development without design (like coders who like to code, whatever it is), but someone who likes designing and not liking developing? That does not make sense to me...

To which I reply with - If one side of a pendulum/spectrum is plausible why is the other unacceptable/unthinkable?
Out of respect and appreciattion I was gonna quote/add some commentary to Lady SunAndShadows' posted re:re: reply. On my second and a half read through of her post however, it dawned on me that I rather not quote or comment. Not because I don't have anything to say. On the contrary, I have so much to say and feel so strongly about her post that I found it more fitting and respectful to NOT comment. It was beautifully, accurately, purposefully as well as distinctively worded so I couldn't possibly allow myself to skew any of it by disecting it in my mind.
Thank you for your input Lady SunAndShadow, it is thoroughly appreciated happy.png

The other part that which struck a chord was (paraphrasing here):



Builders precisely follow the blueprints made by architects. They are not allowed to change almost anything or else a building would surely crumble. On the other hand, the development process can stray so far from the original design document that what the designers envisioned and what is delivered can often be so different.

Game designers are not like architects. They are not even remotely similar.

Wonderfully thought out analogy in my opinion (even though Kylotan countered it pretty well) with a great explanation to your points/reasoning. Kudos wink.png 

@WodinOneEye: That has to be, by far, the closest comparison to the sentiment which has driven the majority of my reactions and behaviors pertaining to my ideas. Well said, I felt a very strong connection and adamantly agree with everything you've said.
These parts significantly resonated within me:

The nature of your  'idea' will significantly effect any answer you can get. It is a paradigm shift that noone in the industry will seriously consider

...or that many within the industry will commonly apply in practice. Even if the shift were to begin occuring, it won't be largely supported/practiced by many in the western culture (for atleast another decade as you said).
This is (in my opinion) because physical examples are collectively malleable and have assessable traits which can be agreed on across the board. That allows for things like realistic deadlines, budget constraints and tools/technological capabilities/ceilings to be calculated.
Our (as in you and I),proposed means of operation implore thoughts in place of physical examples. Ideas/thoughts have all the capabilities of physical examples and more due to being infinitely malleable/nebulous by nature. This poses infinite problems as well as infinite possibilities which is a playground few would dare tread on.
Two things have to occur for this to become plausible in a professional setting. Again, this is all opinion:
This ties into part of the point that Kylotan was making when he said:

All you are really saying is that game designers have not learned how to be very good at their job yet. This is because we don't really understand games very well. If people truly understood games fully, it would be possible to produce a precise design that a programmer could turn into a completely functional and playable game.


As a side note, Kylotan, I loved what you said here (mainly how you said it):


the point was that anybody who is truly involved in the design process is also truly involved in the implementation process.


One of these things that would have to occur would be advances in communication and iteration techniques/skills across the board for all disciplines. 
That means more diverse education within each member off a team. Everyone would need to have a decent grasp of everyone elses discipline while having a strong sense off their own, allowing them to realistically process as well as pass on ideas. If each member can atleast grasp a sense of what the ramifications of their own work can cause a coworker, things become more harmonious by principle. They can both minimize conflict as well as constructively contribute through suggestions or streamlining of the others work.

The second would be a stronger sense of poise and discipline to allow the "treading on an infinite playground" to be plausible.
If every single member of the group is equally dedicated to maintaining a certain level of poise and discipline, never letting it falter below that level,certain things become less of an issue. If this level of focus were carried out in all their actions,  priorities become simple to meet, giving more time to delve into extra content or focus on quality. There wouldn't be any restrictive time constraints or fear of not reaching deadlines. This fear and pressure alters behaviors and forces certain common results which tend to weaken the quality of projects. A deadline wouldn't need to be established/required in this sort of environment because the time frame will realistically present itself (and be accepted or dismissed) if everyone is working at peak performance.


As a side note, peak performance does NOT mean worked to point of high end negative (there are forms of positive) stress. Peak performance is when your resolve/poise is in harmony with your surroundings/environment.


The other thing that would be less of a worry is budget constraints. I'm not saying a budget isn't required, that's ludicrous. What I'm saying is that if money wasn't the primary focus, people wouldn't be as greedy. AltarOfScience commented/contributed handsomely to this point:


Well one major problem is how little entertainment success has to do with the product itself. So much of it is tied up in name recognition, popularity, marketing, and other such nonsense.
You really only need a baseline quality in a product and then its all about perception and marketing.


This means a budget can be managed more conservatively without the need to compromise quality or over indulge in salaries. In a sense you wouldn't feel the budget cap nor would you be stressing over the minimum required assets to see a project through if the product came first and potential gross/marketing/popularity came last (not second). <~~~ Ahh, if only people were that unanimously passionate, uninhibited, motivated, dedicated and inspired by their work. We would have such a rise in quality (of product, work ethics, happiness?) and progress within the industry.



They are obviously farfetched ideals/principles to implement in western culture, but not entirely unrealistic in my opinion. I know that my reason for having these standards as a person aren't normal or common. Alot of it is derived from about two decades of traditional martial arts training. Basically, I don't expect everyone to become Vulcans, able to mind meld in order to share ideas exactly as they envision them. I also don't expect everyone to adopt a monks sensibility and work ethics. Its a nice thought though lol


Adding these principles to practice would effectively cause a sense of infinite potential in my opinion. But I'm a pragmatic realist (for the most part tongue.png I like to dream too!) and the world isnt perfect. There will always be limitations. Allowing ideas to be more affluent within a proffesional environment and loosening the safe:risk ratio won't cause this fact to magically ceast to exist.

Another part which sparked something within me was:

DO you know it will work ?   Thats sometimes the hardest of all -- to realize an idea just wont work (or rather work in the right way  so players would actually want to play it). 
Ideas ARE a dime a dozen, but demonstratable ideas cost alot more...

..and as convenient as interactive/demonstrable ideas are, they can simply be unrealistic/implausible/unfeasible/impractical to develop JUST as a demonstration tool.
This is what I was trying to put into words when I was originally flamed and accused of "too much dreaming and not enough doing".
My stand was (and probably still is) mistaken for a lack of willingness to flesh out a prototype. The fact is that I an not willing to flesh out a prototype specifically for the sake of demonstration.
It can be argued that  a prototype specifically for demonstration, would be work done towards your project (as experience if nothing else) and can ultimately be used within the final product. But as you so elegantly put it, demonstration of the material kind are expensive and time consuming. So much so, that the scope/scale of something as I wish to develop, would not allow it and could quite possibly rendering it pointless. The amount of time and effort I'd spend even producing a prototype could easily cause an overlap of technology, cultural relevance, fall steeply under the trend curve as well as be out developed by up and coming concepts.
My reasoning behind this is well demonstrated by an event (may not be monumental but it had relevance to me later in life) in gaming history. The lesson came in form of a development team (Team Tachyon of Techmo if I remember right) who worked on the revival of a classic known as Rygar aka Argus no Senshi which was released between 1986-1987. The result, was Rygar: The Legendary Adventure, a title that was released in 2002 and did quite well in my opinion. The thing is, some digging into development journals and minor research will explain the 15 year gap in between releases had to do with something similar to what I'm mentioning. Trust me, the gap was not due to loss and subsequent rekindling of interest.
So for those who were wondering and partially challenged me on it:
Yes, I do have some reasoning, history, and research behind my choices/actions which falls back to when I said:


..as I have, to some extent, consciously kept things at a design phase.


Thank you for your input Sir WodinOneEye, althought you wrote so little the potency of your words meant a great deal to me. It was greatly appreciated ph34r.png (wish they had a bow/namaste smiley lol)



Lastly, I'm not gonna name names or point fingers but you guys are bickering about semantics and losing focus on the main topics at hand. Lets try to tone down the pretentiousness a bit, then take a step back. We're getting lost in disagreements on analogies and metaphors while agreeing on the same topics rolleyes.gif



Man... I'd really like to thank every single one of you for contributing to this thread. You guys have seriously turned it into quite a discussion whle keeping the negativity to a minimum. 
Heres to the productive sharing that sure to come throughout my prospective time spent on these forums laugh.png
Sin ←§•ɸ◦§→

#5023780 Starbase Citadel - minimum viable product

Posted by on 21 January 2013 - 01:05 AM

 Heh, a fellow LoLer, not surprised nowadays. cool.png


A few of the mechanics to handle player DCs and mid match queue-ins remind me of DoTA/DoTA2/HoN. I'm glad you took that into account seeing as it is one of the most frustrating things within the MOBA genre. 


Now that you've clarified a lot and have laid out other things, my wonder leans more towards unit control.


First off, I wanna verify a few things:


Resources (aside from being used for in game items) are required for?


To pay for hull repairs/shield regen?

I know its customary to have those sort of features happen for free at the equivalent to or near the Starbase/Citadel in a MOBA but I was just curious as it was mentioned.


Planetary defense grid upgrades/maintenance? 

This would lean towards an upkeep/consistant demand of resource which remindeds me of some of my favorite maps I had designed during my WC3 and SC editor days. rolleyes.gif


- I'm presuming that people will have to assign/fall into roles.


By this I mean something along the lines of:


A mining squad to go gather resources for their race.


A scout party to explorer and begin colonizing neighboring planets.


A raid group to attacking lightly colonized planets which are poorly defended/focus on the neutral mobs and their treasures.


and finally...


A military fleet meant for all out offense and tactical strikes on vital points such as squads, heavily defended planets and eventually paving the way to move in on the Starbase/Citadel.


Keeps getting clearer and clearer.

Maybe I'll be able to give some constructive feedback soon lol...


After I grasp a bit more I'll stop feeling like I'm making assumptions to what you proposed.

At this point I'll be able to analyze things from a realistically unbiased perspective and point things out/purposely suggest things instead of stumbling upon them by misunderstanding lol


Keep up the good work,

Sin  ←§•ɸ◦§→

#5023689 Starbase Citadel - minimum viable product

Posted by on 20 January 2013 - 06:16 PM

 Hello again StarBaseCitadel smile.png


I have read everything offered and have a decent grasp of what your attempting to creat within SBT. The only point I'm not clear on (and I have a feeling I know why) is how the team aspect goes into play.


From what I understand there will be open uncontrolled territory which can be claimed and colonized in a sense. Understandable within itself but where the confusion strikes is in how the team mechanic comes into play. I'm assuming each server, for instance, would be considered a galaxy of sorts (possibly multiple but for arguments sake I'll keep it at that). This in turn means the galaxy is a constant, always active/online. Things such as resources which are being mined or accrued through planet ownership/control are building even when you are not actively playing. This also means your colonized planets have their defenses (orbiting ships possibly armadas/satelite weaponry later) on guard at all times. The only difference would be more strategic attack patterns, decisions and reactions when you are actually online/in control/actively playing.


If all my assumptions thus far have been close or accurate here is where my confusion lies:


Do teams equate alliances such as clans?


If so, are they restricted to only allying with other colonies (players) of their own race?


This model seemed unlikely given what I know so far but it was withing my range of thoughts.



If I was wrong with my first assumption (which I'm almost certain I was) and the servers are not a constant (dedicated servers are expensive as far as I understand it) then the alternate proposal is instance based gameplay. This line of thought was more conducive to what I understand of SBC thus far.


With instance based gaming being the model proposed the match set ups would go something along the lines of this. Teams are matched up at the start of a match, a random galaxy is generated (with neutral camps as you said) and you say "have at it".  I had considered this in my thoughts originally when I posed the two questions. For other reasons the second of the two questions still applies.


Another part of my "I think I know why comment" is that, if I'm not mistaken, victory conditions haven't been implemented into the equation. I can see why, there are tons of rammifications for each proposed Victory condition. Each victory condition I considered had implications which could cause desired as well as undesired effects (turtling/stalemates as you mentioned). All planets in the sector/galaxy being controlled by your team was one. Another was all offensive units and means of creating said units destroyed on opposing teams. The third wasn't as conventional but had some quirks to it. Reaching a set goal (for each team to try and reach together within their allied collective) of production/prosperity grants an automatic victory to which ever team/allies. This last one could lead to a interesting gameplay pattern in which people who dont wish to be violent and prefer to play defensive (like they would rather focus on resource/economic aspect) have their method of winning with their strengths. My general suggestion is that you implement something along the lines of all three at once. This way everyone can have their cake and eat it too laugh.png


So, there you go. You essentially asked which features you should focus on. I'm not sure if I answered or helped with what you asked now that I think about it lol.. I reached for all the points I saw as possible loose ends while mainly trying to absorb/grasp what your concept is.


At the very least, you can be happy knowing that your thoughts are well iterated and coherent enough for someone to grasp them to the extent I'd like to believe I have.


I hope it proves atleast somewhat useful,

Sin ←§•ɸ◦§→

#5023470 Ideas are a dime a dozen...

Posted by on 20 January 2013 - 06:15 AM

Design is really not the same kind of activity as development.  There are many people who enjoy one activity and not the other, in both directions. 


That was my stand all along. I felt I was being berated when the topics as well as my words were being taken out of context or jarbled to benefit a point. Alls well though, I think I took away quite a bit from this post as well as shared/showed where I'm coming from without letting tension get out of hand. tongue.png