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Lurler

Member Since 19 Aug 2013
Offline Last Active Feb 18 2014 04:48 AM

Posts I've Made

In Topic: Designing a Skill Tree for a Sci-Fi space game

06 January 2014 - 01:09 AM

Also. It might not be the best place for it... :) But if you people are interested to try the game we are looking for people to be in the Closed Alpha Test team.

In that case please follow the link below:
http://forums.atomictorch.com/index.php?topic=21.0


In Topic: Designing a Skill Tree for a Sci-Fi space game

02 January 2014 - 09:36 PM

Well, it looks like you have your work cut out for you.

Well, I guess so :)
 

You say your skills will define your class in an organic way, so it would make sense to have the trees arranged in such a way that they define an archetype.

Yup. That is what we are trying to do.
 

Could you offer synergy between the skill categories, so that your aptitude for more maneuverable ships would offer a bonus to the effectiveness of cannons that are aimed by maneuvering the ship, or would you just let the player's superior ability impart that bonus in the practical sense?

It is not that simple unfortunately. There are not that much possible combat skills that we can realistically implement. Mostly increasing different stats. Creating something wholly new is time consuming and not always worth it.
 

Without knowing what the individual skills are, I can't give much specific feedback on their organization, but this is a fun topic to think about, and I wish you luck with your design.

Thank you :) And yes, that is certainyl a very interesting topic!
 

You might also wish to consider such things as a master trader tree by where you develop skills associated with trade, languages, legal knowledge, diplomacy.

Yes, this is another interesting idea. We have skills for basic trading and skills to get services at stations for cheaper. But we also have skill for persuation that the player can use in dialogues. Right now it works just by providing extra option when talking to npc. I was thinking of possibly making it more interesting in some way.
 

Dependant on your skill level and reputation established you might open previously inaccessible markets, receive more comprehensive trade reports i.e. be made aware of shortages or surpluses.

But how is this going to work? The character can't just "know" that. He will have to ask that information in a station or somewhere else. But in that case why can't he ask that without skill?
 

Hmm, how much do weapons themself differ to make the players choose different types?

Well, we have weapons divied by size (small, medium, heavy) and type (energy, ballistic, missile). But inside each group there are many different weapons. For example light energy weapons could be: lasers, pulse lasers, plasma cannons, ark dischargers, etc.
 

You could have different skills affecting a multitude of weapons; for example: one skill to boost all weapons made of iron. another skill to boost big weapons. a third skill to boost long range accuracy. A player choosing these 3 skills would most likely fly around with a big iron long range gun, but he/she could switch to a short range big iron gun for a certain mission, missing out on his/her long range accuracy skill but still using 2/3rd of their weapon-skills.

That is interesting possibility. But in that case how would you suggest to lay out the tree? What main branches would you add?
 

So if a player makes a few silly choices at the start of the game he/she should pay for it until he/she makes a new character ?

No, the tops of the trees are generic enough and usefult enough that it would be okay for anyone to pick it. But the more down the tree you go, the more specialized skills become. So, you will understand the usefulness of each skill before you can actually learn it. But yeah, you have a point, I can't deny that.
 

I would try making the different tree branches be based off of playstyles, so that a player can have some idea of what branch or branches they should try going down.  If one is all about maneuverability, one is about dealing damage rapidly, one is about high alpha strikes, one is about stealth, the player can then decide they want to play a stealthy ship with high alpha damage, or  a fast ship that has high alpha or a fast ship that deals rapid damage, etc.

Yes. That is the idea. I don't remember if I mentioned it already, but for example for piloting tree we have following main branches:
* fast combat - for people who plan to have fast and maneuverable ships.
* slow combat - for people who are interested in slow and heavily armored ships.
* civilian - mostly for these who are interested in trade, engineering, mining, etc.
But these are only general archetypes, you can of course mix skills for different branches to create something that you would like yourself.


In Topic: Designing a Skill Tree for a Sci-Fi space game

26 December 2013 - 01:46 AM

How does the player learn skills?

Hm. What do you mean? You just click on the skill and bam, you learned it :) But you need skill points that you get by earning levels.
 

Make sure your skills and character progression are enslaved to your gameplay.  Catalog the mechanics of the core game and build skills that impact that.

Yes, that's exactly what we did. We are happy how it turned out for a piloting and engineering trees, but combat tree... so far we can't make it any good. The problem is - we don't want to group skills there by weapon types, it's just too simple, plus it would lock players to only use one weapon type. But doing it otherwise - we just can't make it any good/interesting/balanced.
 

As a long-time Eve player, I tend to think of spaceship skills as passive skills, leaving the selection of active abilities in the realm of ship loadout.

Yup, that's my idea too. We have ship modules for "action" effects. And skills add passive stats or ability to use something.
 

Piloting: ... A library of skill boosts would be appropriate here.  Maneuverability, acceleration, top speed, inertial dampening, fuel efficiency, whatever influences your ability to fly the ship effectively will fit here.  Ship-specific skills can deepen and expand the library, so you can have a skill that boosts top speed, then have another skill that further boosts top speed in fighters, allowing players to spend points both for general aptitude and for specialization.

Exactly. That's what this skill tree is about. Plus we made three major branches: fast fighters ships, slow and heavy ships, and civilian ships.

 

Combat: [snip]

While I totally agree with you on everything, we faced a problem of organising all these skills in a coherent three with pathes for player to pursue. So far I am not happy with any of our attempts. But maybe later we can devise something.
 

Engineering:  I'm thinking of this primarily as a defensive function, combining Eve's Engineering and Mechanic categories.

Yup, mostly this. Plus civilian stuff like asteroid mining and manufacturing.
 

Other:  I don't like the idea of having a "Miscellaneous" category in a skill page.  It seems clumsy and unpolished.  If it doesn't fit into a category that's worth pursuing and building upon, then it's probably not worth having a skill for it.

I don't really like it either, but if we don't add it then a whole lot of interesting skills would have to be thrown out of the game. For example where do you put a social skills? There are quite a few of them, but not enough to create a separate category just for them. So, they are in the other. And there are a number of skills like that.
 

Boosts to non-core systems could be low-cost, optional branches in one of your three main trees.  Don't let your players know that you have a "kitchen sink" category for shit you couldn't fit in or do without. That's weak.

Maybe you are right. I will think more on this. Maybe there is a better way to go about it.
 

Thinking further, a lot depends on whether or not you'll allow respecialization of your character skills.

That's actually another important point. We are not going to allow respec. Because these skills pretty much determine your character "class". I think you can agree that if you were playing a warrior and suddenly decided to switch to a mage it would be just too simple. Plus it is a hardcore game and your choises must matter in a long term.
 

If you can't respec, then GameFAQs' "best build" will become the only way to play, and you may as well just have a linear "level up" progression.

To be honest I wouldn't worry about it too much. First of all what determines the most what you can do is you gear. Plus if someone wants to be a munchkin it's their decision :) But the way we are preparing these trees there won't be a single best build. Maybe several really good ones, but it is certainly not a deal breaker.


In Topic: Designing a Skill Tree for a Sci-Fi space game

24 December 2013 - 03:59 AM

Here is our progress on the skill tree.

 

46.jpg?maxwidth=500

Full size: http://atomictorch.com/Images/Upload/46.png

 

The tree itself is procedurally generated from a list of skills. Any skill can have a parent.

 

What do you think? smile.png


In Topic: Designing a Skill Tree for a Sci-Fi space game

07 October 2013 - 09:21 PM


Ugh, skills for Elite kind of game. That would be tough indeed... The core poblem is that's an "arcade" game (you fly the ship, aim and shoot), and for these games artificial skills (no player's skills) are usually not working that well...

Well, in our case it plays like EVE in 2d world. So, there are a good number of skills actually. The problem is making it into a coherent system... which is hard.

 


I guess I was not much of a help smile.png

Well, anything helps :)


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