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devious

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Crunch continues. Looks like I won't be home much before 10pm any day this week.

I've had a devilish idea about 4E6... but I'm not sure what people's responses would be, or that it's even workable. Simply enough, it'd be the requirement that at least two people are credited on an entry (and by 'credited,' I mean that they have to have done a significant quantity of work - they can't just sign their name to it).
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I'd support that idea, though the last time I worked with SHilbert, he killed a baby seal, bolted it to a Japanese girl's head, and then...

...it's still hard to talk about.

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I'm not too sure what the issue with making a lone project is. I'm doing it for the current contest so far -- is there some problem I'm missing with it?

Quote:
Original post by Ravuya
I'd support that idea, though the last time I worked with SHilbert, he killed a baby seal, bolted it to a Japanese girl's head, and then...
*snip*
...it's still hard to talk about.


That's great :).

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To be honest, I think many projects are already made by multiple people, so you wouldn't win much with it. On the other hand it might be an interesting way to get some non-programmers from the gamedev community to participate.

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Quote:
Original post by sirob
I'm not too sure what the issue with making a lone project is. I'm doing it for the current contest so far -- is there some problem I'm missing with it?
There's not really a problem per se - beyond the fact that you're limited to what's achievable by one person, at least. It's more that working in a team presents new challenges to many people who haven't tried it before. I also suspect that it would improve the 'yield' (ratio of entries to failed attempts) because team members can help to keep each other motivated.

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I really like the idea, in fact I would say teams would require at least 4 people (keep up with the 4eX mentality). I really don't know many people that well around here and it would force me to get to know some of them.

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Original post by superpig
Quote:
Original post by sirob
I'm not too sure what the issue with making a lone project is. I'm doing it for the current contest so far -- is there some problem I'm missing with it?
There's not really a problem per se - beyond the fact that you're limited to what's achievable by one person, at least. It's more that working in a team presents new challenges to many people who haven't tried it before. I also suspect that it would improve the 'yield' (ratio of entries to failed attempts) because team members can help to keep each other motivated.


I think you're underestimating the problems that a team can bring up. I would say that on the whole it's harder to get a team effort to complete a game than it is to do it yourself, simply because of the problems that you encounter when trying to deal with someone else. That being of course only for people who've never worked in a team before, but that's most people.

Besides which, it's kind of unfair to eliminate entries simply because people wanted to work alone :).

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Don't teams already have the advantage over the solo developers [grin]?

I can arguments for forcing a team; working in a team an important part of any large project and is something most beginners sorely need. However I don't know how well it would go with the nature of the Four Elements competition.

Personally, I know I wouldn't enter a Four Elements competition if I was forced to be on a team, for a number of reasons:
  • I'd prefer to work in a local team, so I can meet face-to-face, but I don't know anyone locally who would be interested in working on a project. Admittedly this is a weaker concern because I know there are several Canberreans on the forums and I could ask around, but there are other concerns...
  • Personally I'd only join a team if I were fully committed to seeing the project through, because I hate letting other people down. In one ways this could be a positive, as you've mentioned, because it means I'd put more work in the project. In actuality though, I probably wouldn't sign up at all, because my timetable is so undefined that I could not guarantee that I could stick with it to the end. For this 4E5 that's fine, as I'm just letting down myself (and those who read my journal, I guess [grin]), but I'd hate to let down a team. Maybe not such an issue for the bulk of high school aged competitors though, but I suspect it will be issue for many sitting on the fence about whether to give the compeition a go.
  • What happens if a team member pulls out? From what I've read in the "Help Wanted" forum, this is the bane of most indie projects, but for a mantatory team structure in 4E6 with such a fixed time limit it would be a killer blow.
  • For me, the only reason I'm working on 4E5 is that it fits in nicely with my own learning schedule; there's a bunch of stuff I want to try out in a game, so why not try for 4E5? If I were on a team however, I'd most likely have to concentrate more on deliverables and less on experimentation, as it's not just my game I'd screw up by taking risks.


I suppose I'm a bit skewed towards to solo game developer at the moment [grin]. I'd only work on a game team if it were for a potential commercial product (i.e. serious work) or if it were just for a bit of a laugh (i.e. not an issue if it falls flat). And in terms of next year I'm not sure whether I'll have the time to compete in 4E6 anyway (that's at a particularly nasty time for me; I'd be in the thick of my Ph.D. write up). So I guess it's up to you as to what you want the competition to be like.

Thinking through the likely consequencesI suspect that if you instigated a mandatory team for 4E6 you'll see far less projects at the end. There's a bit more extra effort to form a decent team at the beginning, which will cut back the number of people who actually start (thats not necessarily a problem [grin]). But I suspect a large percentage of the teams that do start will disintegrate after a month or two as members pull out, especially if keen competitors are having to team up with the less keen. I also suspect you'll have a very skewed programmer to artist ratio too. And I'm not sure you'll get many of the "late starters"; those people who say they might enter the competition if they have time.

Of course, it makes judging a lot easier if you only have a dozen or so games of a generally higher standard!

(Wrote far too much there [grin]!)

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Well, like I said, it was only an idea. And I suspect it's not workable - it's very difficult to actually check that a game was built by a team.

I guess it'll be better to focus on helping encourage people to do teambuilding via other means...

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