Ranting on the futility of dumbasses

posted in NO

Published July 28, 2007

Quote:Original post by alex655321
the eventual gavel of doom that Micro$oft will bring down in ending support to MS-DOS

Emphasis added by myself

Hey idiots!

It's Microsoft, or MS, or MSFT if you need to abbreviate. It is NOT Microsucks, Micro$oft, or M$. If you are one of the mountains of morons that uses the aforementioned nomenclature take notice: You are definitely not smart, clever, funny and especially not original. People have been using the '$' as a derogative in the Microsoft name since the dawn of internet time. I'm not saying that you shouldn't dislike Microsoft. Not at all, that's your opinion. But please keep it to yourself, unless you're going to be sensible about it.

So, please, stop, it makes you looks like a fucking idiot. I swear if I see another forum post with M$ or Micro$oft in it I'm going to hunt down the offending moron and beat them.

As for the quote above, the only reason I even went to read it is because it was titled "Trying to move from DOS to Windows Arrrrg!" and all I could think was "Who the fuck is still using MS-DOS after all this time??" But when I saw the '$' I stopped reading and felt that this person wasn't smart enough to even be anywhere near a computer. And I feel that way whenever I see anything written in such a manner.

This brings me to another rant about idiots: The first article from a couple of weeks ago on linux game development which opened up with diatribe on how linux was SOOO much better than windows... guess what:

I DON'T FUCKING CARE

Quote:Moronic statement from linux article
For those of you who may not know, Linux is a free operating system originally created by Linus Torvalds and developed with the assistance of programmers around the world. It is an alternative to other operating systems like Windows. It is tremendously stable, very reliable, and much more secure than Windows. Linux also offers several different file systems, like ReiserFS and XFS, which are noticeably faster than FAT32 or NTFS on Windows.

I've bolded the part that really, really, really is NOT necessary.

Stop trying to ram your fucking pathetic ideology down my throat. If you're going to write an article on linux game development, write about just that. LINUX GAME DEVELOPMENT. Not what makes linux so much better than windows. I use windows, I develop stuff on windows, so if you're going to try and make me at least even TRY to develop on another platform don't tell me why windows sucks compared to linux! It has NOTHING to do with developing a game on linux (no, really, it doesn't and if you believe otherwise you need your head examined). After all, if I'm already reading your shitty article, then you've already got my attention. I'm not a fish, I don't need to be 'reeled' in. Seriously GD.NET staff, what the fuck were you thinking approving that article?

OK, my blood pressure is good and high now, so I'm leaving. Feel free to tell me how I'm wrong.

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0 likes 27 comments

Comments

Stompy9999

I totally agree, I can't stand that M$ crap either, or people trying to "convert" me to using linux like some sort of religious missionary. I use C#, XNA, Windows XP, and play Xbox 360, and I'm quite happy with all of them.

July 28, 2007 03:51 PM

Tape_Worm

Your avatar = teh awesome.

I spent a good hour last night trying to find pixel art like that.

July 28, 2007 04:07 PM

Driv3MeFar

I agree on all points. I really can't stand OS/software/etc zealots. If you want to use Linux then go right ahead, but don't tell me about why it's sooo much better than Windows. You're not going to convert me (and why would you even care to try in the first place?), instead you just sound like a complete jackass. I especially can't stand the anti-Microsoft idiots who for some reason think that being a large corporation makes you unequivocally evil and out to get the end user.

July 28, 2007 04:26 PM

Stompy9999

Quote:Original post by Tape_Worm
Your avatar = teh awesome.

I spent a good hour last night trying to find pixel art like that.

Thanks! I found it when I looked up "Zaku II" from my favorite anime Gundam. It's a sprite from an SNES game.

Here's some from the same game, if you want to use them.

July 28, 2007 06:08 PM

Sir Sapo

Quote:Original post by Driv3MeFar
I agree on all points. I really can't stand OS/software/etc zealots. If you want to use Linux then go right ahead, but don't tell me about why it's sooo much better than Windows. You're not going to convert me (and why would you even care to try in the first place?), instead you just sound like a complete jackass. I especially can't stand the anti-Microsoft idiots who for some reason think that being a large corporation makes you unequivocally evil and out to get the end user.

Seconded!

July 28, 2007 11:39 PM

Ravuya

Sadly, arguing against religious zealotry hasn't done anything to keep sects of Christianity from killing each other, so it's not like people will stop fighting over something that actually matters, like vi vs. emacs.

July 29, 2007 12:25 AM

Programmer16

You're completely wrong. Except for the part where you used words; that part was right.

To be honest, judging by 90% of the articles I've read on here, I don't think they actually look at the articles when they approve them.

July 29, 2007 12:51 AM

Tape_Worm

Quote:Original post by Stompy9999
Quote:Original post by Tape_Worm
Your avatar = teh awesome.

I spent a good hour last night trying to find pixel art like that.

Thanks! I found it when I looked up "Zaku II" from my favorite anime Gundam. It's a sprite from an SNES game.

Here's some from the same game, if you want to use them.

Awesome, thanks.

July 29, 2007 02:48 AM

Tape_Worm

Quote:Original post by Ravuya
Sadly, arguing against religious zealotry hasn't done anything to keep sects of Christianity from killing each other, so it's not like people will stop fighting over something that actually matters, like vi vs. emacs.

Well clearly it's emacs for the win.

And yeah I know it's pointless, hence why I opted to bitch and moan in my journal instead of the offending thread.

July 29, 2007 02:49 AM

Tape_Worm

I refuse to believe anyone actually reads my journal. So you all can't exist.

July 29, 2007 02:50 AM

choffstein

Well, I certainly don't read it -- that is for sure.

July 29, 2007 01:05 PM

Aardvajk

Me neither, but I do agree with everything you posted.

BTW, since you stopped reading, alex655321 was concerned because he was writing console applications and felt that MS might drop support for them. It actually had nothing to do with MS-DOS in the end.

July 29, 2007 01:51 PM

Tape_Worm

Quote:Original post by visage
Well, I certainly don't read it -- that is for sure.

And yet, here you are. Posting a comment.

July 29, 2007 01:53 PM

Tape_Worm

Quote:Original post by EasilyConfused
BTW, since you stopped reading, alex655321 was concerned because he was writing console applications and felt that MS might drop support for them. It actually had nothing to do with MS-DOS in the end.

Well now. That seems kind of anti-climatic.

July 29, 2007 02:32 PM

LachlanL

I'm sorry, but in the real world, you'll be dealing with real people. Real people have opinions. Sometimes you'll have to stomach the opinion in order to get to the good stuff.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that people aren't paid to put their articles on GD.net. They're not journalists (and even they put in their opinion these days anyway). To be honest. I'm impressed by the number of people willing to spend their free time to share their knowledge/experience freely with others. But with respect to quality, I guess you get what you pay for.

Anyway, [flaming] on. [grin]

July 29, 2007 07:22 PM

Tape_Worm

Quote:Original post by LachlanL
I'm sorry, but in the real world, you'll be dealing with real people. Real people have opinions. Sometimes you'll have to stomach the opinion in order to get to the good stuff.

I had written a large chunk of text addressing this when I realized that it's quite hypocritical to claim that I should, in essence, shut-up and put-up with opinions of others. Clearly you can't, else you wouldn't bother to tell me yours (and you have every right in response to my inflammatory remarks). In the future, telling me how it is in the real world is not really going to help. I assure you I've been living in the 'real world' for many years now, which I suspect you have yet to do. If I wrote up a design spec and began with "We use SQL server. It's a good database, it's superior to Oracle." (true or not is irrelevant) I'd be in a lot of shit with my boss and likely my client, especially if they use Oracle. And I should be. THAT, my friend, is the real world.

Quote:Maybe I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that people aren't paid to put their articles on GD.net. They're not journalists (and even they put in their opinion these days anyway). To be honest. I'm impressed by the number of people willing to spend their free time to share their knowledge/experience freely with others. But with respect to quality, I guess you get what you pay for.

That argument is getting old and has no merit. It has nothing to do with whether it's free or not (and it isn't by the way, I, like you, -pay- for my account here, and thus I do expect some level of professionalism). Why should I put up with crap? I often write my personal code for open source usage, and I try to put the same level of quality that I put into code that I get paid for. e.g. I DON'T litter my code with opinion, unless it's about a bug/difficult design decision in some API I'm dealing with. And even then that is meant as help to get around issues in something I'm using, not something that I'm -NOT- using (i.e. if I'm writing shit for linux, why do I care if windows is inferior? Again, whether it be true or not is irrelevant) After all, if I write code for use by people and it had a fatal, but subtle flaw, and someone didn't tell me about it, how would I know? Or something a little more abstract. If my design is flawed to the public (but not to me), shouldn't I be told? Yes, I should be.

As for journalists putting their own opinion in, that's not a defense, that's a shameful practice. You're supposed to REPORT the news to me, not give me your views on it. Sadly, you're correct, this is less and less the case these days. It's shameful.

July 29, 2007 10:33 PM

LachlanL

Quote:Original post by Tape_Worm
Quote:Original post by LachlanL
I'm sorry, but in the real world, you'll be dealing with real people. Real people have opinions. Sometimes you'll have to stomach the opinion in order to get to the good stuff.

I had written a large chunk of text addressing this when I realized that it's quite hypocritical to claim that I should, in essence, shut-up and put-up with opinions of others. Clearly you can't, else you wouldn't bother to tell me yours (and you have every right in response to my inflammatory remarks). In the future, telling me how it is in the real world is not really going to help. I assure you I've been living in the 'real world' for many years now, which I suspect you have yet to do. If I wrote up a design spec and began with "We use SQL server. It's a good database, it's superior to Oracle." (true or not is irrelevant) I'd be in a lot of shit with my boss and likely my client, especially if they use Oracle. And I should be. THAT, my friend, is the real world.

Fair enough. To be honest, my original post was meant to be less of a claim and more advice. Obviously I don't care if you don't like the article you quoted. What I was trying to say was more along the lines of "just calm down and see if there's anything worth-while in the article", since you seemed quite angry. However, this is your journal and the post was clearly marked as a rant, so I don't really have any business saying this stuff to you. I hope you'll accept my apology.

As for your example, that depends on whether you've been asked to justify your design decisions [wink].

Quote:
Quote:Maybe I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that people aren't paid to put their articles on GD.net. They're not journalists (and even they put in their opinion these days anyway). To be honest. I'm impressed by the number of people willing to spend their free time to share their knowledge/experience freely with others. But with respect to quality, I guess you get what you pay for.

That argument is getting old and has no merit. It has nothing to do with whether it's free or not (and it isn't by the way, I, like you, -pay- for my account here, and thus I do expect some level of professionalism). Why should I put up with crap? I often write my personal code for open source usage, and I try to put the same level of quality that I put into code that I get paid for. e.g. I DON'T litter my code with opinion, unless it's about a bug/difficult design decision in some API I'm dealing with. And even then that is meant as help to get around issues in something I'm using, not something that I'm -NOT- using (i.e. if I'm writing shit for linux, why do I care if windows is inferior? Again, whether it be true or not is irrelevant) After all, if I write code for use by people and it had a fatal, but subtle flaw, and someone didn't tell me about it, how would I know? Or something a little more abstract. If my design is flawed to the public (but not to me), shouldn't I be told? Yes, I should be.

As for journalists putting their own opinion in, that's not a defense, that's a shameful practice. You're supposed to REPORT the news to me, not give me your views on it. Sadly, you're correct, this is less and less the case these days. It's shameful.

Well, we might be paying for our accounts, but like I said, I don't think they pay people to write the articles. If a staff-member can correct my mistake, I'll be glad to recant. I'm of the opinion that the majority of what we pay for is the maintenance and moderation of a user-supported community. Maybe we should be demanding stricter moderation (or editting) of the articles? Would we be happy to reduce the number of articles (which is already fairly sparse) in order to improve their quality? As for your coding practices, that's very cool. I can only hope we'll be seeing articles from you in the future. [smile]

Our little discussion here has brought up an interesting question: if you can't get reliably objective reporting from either paid or free journalism, what can we do? Much has already been made of the flaws in similar resources like wikipedia. I do agree that the act of putting spin or commenting in "news" is shameful.

July 29, 2007 11:31 PM

Tape_Worm

Quote:Original post by LachlanL
Fair enough. To be honest, my original post was meant to be less of a claim and more advice. Obviously I don't care if you don't like the article you quoted. What I was trying to say was more along the lines of "just calm down and see if there's anything worth-while in the article", since you seemed quite angry. However, this is your journal and the post was clearly marked as a rant, so I don't really have any business saying this stuff to you. I hope you'll accept my apology.

As for your example, that depends on whether you've been asked to justify your design decisions [wink].

No problem, I'm a very unreasonable man, and I accept your apology.

And damn, let me tell you, I can't count how many times I've been asked to justify my design decisions... contract work where client gets a code review... gotta love it eh? Sometimes I argue, sometimes I don't. Depends on how much money I want to make [grin]

Quote:As for your coding practices, that's very cool. I can only hope we'll be seeing articles from you in the future. [smile]

Oh hell no, imagine an article -I'd- write: "FUCK THIS, SHIT THAT, I HATE THIS, I HATE THAT, HATE HATE HATE if (counter > 10) { DoFunction(); } BLAH BLAH RANT RANT [screen shot]". Again, I'm an angry man. And then I'd have to write an entry on how I'm an idiot for putting opinion in my article... recursive nightmare.

Quote:Maybe we should be demanding stricter moderation (or editting) of the articles? Would we be happy to reduce the number of articles (which is already fairly sparse) in order to improve their quality?

I understand that the fees are for maintenance, but at the same time I do expect a certain level of quality, especially if I'm paying. And frankly I'm of the mindset that I'd accept fewer entries (and frankly, some of these articles aren't really that interesting anyway to me) of higher quality. But some people see it the other way. I've been burned by one too many bad tutorials and articles.

Quote:Our little discussion here has brought up an interesting question: if you can't get reliably objective reporting from either paid or free journalism, what can we do? Much has already been made of the flaws in similar resources like wikipedia. I do agree that the act of putting spin or commenting in "news" is shameful.

As for the news, funnily enough I was sent this link as a PRIME example. I particularly like the van exploding, twice! And the hacker death squads and so forth, so much fun. You may have already seen it, I'm out of touch I think.

The most we can do, well, the most we can do is complain. If we stay quiet, it gets worse. If we complain, and don't read, watch or listen, then maybe, however unlikely, eventually they'll get the message. Sadly, you need a lot of people to fall in line with that way of thinking, and most people are akin to sheep. It's a sad state of affairs.

July 30, 2007 12:23 AM

Emmanuel Deloget

Damn! I read it! Are you really that angry? [grin]

Regarding the articles, we try to get useful articles from all over the world. Some authors may express their opinion - some may not. The article you are citing (linux game dev) is not really filled with opinion, and do not sell linux that much.

And let's get the complete quote:

Quote:It is an alternative to other operating systems like Windows. It is tremendously stable, very reliable, and much more secure than Windows. Linux also offers several different file systems, like ReiserFS and XFS, which are noticeably faster than FAT32 or NTFS on Windows.

Ok, I understand your point. But the author just cite a few key difference between Linux and Windows (hence providing a strong point to backup Linux as an alternative to other OS). The point about the file system is a bit more interesting: if you ever had to deal with a large number of files, you know that using a fast filesystem (one that will reduce seeks before it can open the file) is a good thing. Since huge datasets are quite common in games, this is a valid point. I won't discuss the point against security - everyone has an opinion on the subject, and you can have a Windows platform which is secure enough if you don't suddenly start to test-drive some random pron intarweb). I consider that linux security is far worse that what they agree to say - the good things being that it's not heavily targeted by pirates. But even with up-to-date linux systems, you can still have some surprises.

Articles are reviewed. I agree that they should be reviewed harder and that some articles are less strong than some others, but this takes time and we don't have much time (we have day jobs). We try to improve the article selection process to the best of our ability. So, please, forgive us if we're not fast enough [smile].

July 30, 2007 09:05 AM

Tape_Worm

Quote:Original post by Emmanuel Deloget
Damn! I read it! Are you really that angry? [grin]

Regarding the articles, we try to get useful articles from all over the world. Some authors may express their opinion - some may not. The article you are citing (linux game dev) is not really filled with opinion, and do not sell linux that much.

And let's get the complete quote:

Quote:It is an alternative to other operating systems like Windows. It is tremendously stable, very reliable, and much more secure than Windows. Linux also offers several different file systems, like ReiserFS and XFS, which are noticeably faster than FAT32 or NTFS on Windows.

That's actually not the complete quote. I put the complete quote on my posting so that people wouldn't take it out of context. Just to be crystal clear on that.

As for the anger, I have rage issues in general. For instance you wouldn't want to be in the car with me as I drive to work.

Quote:Ok, I understand your point. But the author just cite a few key difference between Linux and Windows (hence providing a strong point to backup Linux as an alternative to other OS). The point about the file system is a bit more interesting: if you ever had to deal with a large number of files, you know that using a fast filesystem (one that will reduce seeks before it can open the file) is a good thing. Since huge datasets are quite common in games, this is a valid point. I won't discuss the point against security - everyone has an opinion on the subject, and you can have a Windows platform which is secure enough if you don't suddenly start to test-drive some random pron intarweb). I consider that linux security is far worse that what they agree to say - the good things being that it's not heavily targeted by pirates. But even with up-to-date linux systems, you can still have some surprises.

Telling me it's an alternative was enough, I'm already reading the article, so my interest is already there. I honestly don't need to be told how much more secure it is (what exactly does that have to do with game programming on a hobby level)? And is that even true? (the number of *nix boxes I've seen rooted over the years tells me the opposite story) As for file systems, if the article had stated "I use reiser instead of ext2 because I've found it somewhat faster, ymmv." It'd be at least within the context of the operating system. Again, I'm already reading the article, you've got my attention and I'm likely not wondering about windows. Performance is such an unstable thing, it's influenced by too many external factors. Sure your NTFS file system may be faster than his reiser FS (or vice versa), but that's because the driver might be A: optimized better, B: using better hardware and so on. And the opposite can also be true. It's too subjective in my opinion and leads to stupid statements like "NTFS IS MOAR FASTAR THEN LUNIX!". Too many people take such claims as fact. Like security, it's a subject that depends on who you're talking with.

I'm not saying which side is right in a comparison, they're both very shitty operating systems if you want the honest truth. I'm honestly a little sick of the insecurity of linux people (and many windows people as well). And I felt compelled to comment on it. While this article and that one piece of commentary didn't invoke a big OS religion debate, it wouldn't take much more than that to do so (hell it's done for even less on more pathetic sites like slashdot, but don't get me started on that). I expect more neutrality from this site. Especially if we want to give a professional appearance.

As for the editing/moderation, you guys do a great job, don't get me wrong. And I do understand if you occasionally miss things, just expect to be told if you do [grin].

July 30, 2007 10:42 AM

Evil Steve

I approve of this journal entry.

August 01, 2007 01:18 PM

Zahlman

Quote:Original post by Driv3MeFar
I agree on all points. I really can't stand OS/software/etc zealots. If you want to use Linux then go right ahead, but don't tell me about why it's sooo much better than Windows. You're not going to convert me (and why would you even care to try in the first place?), instead you just sound like a complete jackass. I especially can't stand the anti-Microsoft idiots who for some reason think that being a large corporation makes you unequivocally evil and out to get the end user.

I use whatever I'm given, generally, but I still don't really *like* a lot of things that Windows does; and in particular I'm saddened by historical negative influence that it's had on the Mac OS. The latter has in the past done many things that were objectively more logical from a user interface perspective, but which were later scrapped (in favour of how Windows does things), presumably simply to be competitive. (Exhibit A: window close boxes right next to the minimize/maximize widgets; whereas older versions of MacOS put the close box at top-left, specifically to avoid accidental window-closing. After all, minimize and maximize can be easily undone, but close cannot - and asking for a confirmation dialog is annoying and actually wouldn't really help.)

So, in a bad mood, I will often find myself writing things like "M$". I don't think I'm being particularly clever or original (how presumptuous!); I am merely registering my disappointment with how they do things. Anyway, projecting "tell me about why it's sooo much better than Windows" onto people who merely *complain* about windows is, well, not on.

As for the last point, my understanding of the way the world works is that being a large corporation more or less legally requires you to be "unequivocally evil and out to get the end user". Because of, you know, the whole maximizing shareholder value thing.

For what it's worth, I don't like Sun's licensing policies either (or a lot of design decisions in Java, or their coding practices), and eventually I developed a bad taste in my mouth even for Apple (although Motorola came first, after they screwed Apple over on the G4 processors).

August 01, 2007 01:24 PM

Zahlman

Quote:Original post by Tape_Worm
Well clearly it's emacs for the win.

Why do you hate Uganda? ;)

August 01, 2007 01:25 PM

Tape_Worm

Quote:Original post by Evil Steve
I approve of this journal entry.

I approve of your approval of this journal entry.

August 01, 2007 02:35 PM

Tape_Worm

Quote:Original post by Zahlman
Quote:Original post by Tape_Worm
Well clearly it's emacs for the win.

Why do you hate Uganda? ;)

I'm an internet hate machine.

August 01, 2007 02:38 PM

Luckless

Quote:Original post by Tape_Worm
As for the anger, I have rage issues in general. For instance you wouldn't want to be in the car with me as I drive to work.

How about just a camera man then? Could you take one of those along with you sometime and post the resulting video up for us?

Anyway, always fun to read rants and raves about ranting and raving nut jobs. There isn't much you can do about them, so you may as well join them one way or another.

And anyone know why fools started typing MS as M$ in the first place? Even the first person to do it wasn't being overly original or anything like that.

August 03, 2007 03:29 PM

_goat

Quote:Original post by Tape_Worm
Quote:Original post by Evil Steve
I approve of this journal entry.

I approve of your approval of this journal entry.

Ha ha!

Classic.

August 05, 2007 02:24 AM

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Tape_Worm

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