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Hurt Feelings

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noaktree

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As I said in my first post, I've been hanging around this site for quite a few years. It is only recently that I've started interacting with many of you. The overall result has been very good. Thanks to many of you I have become a much better coder since becoming a member. But unfortunately I see a tendency for many of you to purposely hurt other's feelings. For instance, today I went into the #gamedev chat room for my second time. I asked if anyone knows of any strategy or rpg games that allow you to control your own kingdom. I'm interested in researching this kind of game for development. While I was waiting for someone to reply I also asked if anyone knew of any place I could get a 3D model of a golf course. I'm also interested in making a golf simulation. The replies were very sarcastic. "That's a very specific game style", one said. And in reply to the golf course question I got, "3ds max...when you make it yourself." Then they began to make fun of my questions by asking their own questions about obscure models with base 13 numbers in a very specific file format. This hurt. I became frustrated and replied, "Damn! Why are so many game developers sarcastic instead of helpful / friendly?" I then left the chat room in protest.

This has not been the only instance of such badgering. Don't we have a great place here? Isn't GameDev the most awesome place for people to share ideas and help each other out? It seems to me that many of the people who develop games while exceeding in their art lack the simple skill of common courtesy. So please be kind to one another. Respect each other's ideas and please provide assistance when asked. And if you are unable to help then just swallow your pride and say so. I am quite talented and quite capable. But my feelings can still be hurt.

So what are my options? I could become just as cynical and sarcastic. But this is probably not the best choice for my personal goals in life. I want to succeed. I want to be happy. And most successful happy people I know, and I know a lot of them, are not this way. Perhaps GameDev just isn't the right place for people like me? Maybe we could create another game dev site called www.gamedevwithoutsarcasm.net [smile] where sarcasm and being hurtful aren't allowed. After all if you continue to water seeds with oil they probably won't turn into the best of plants. There are so many young developers being exposed to this attitude. And that is just sad! They are game development's future and should be watered with compassion and understanding. Not spite.

Neil

Postscript: I apologize to my normal readers. I generally intend this journal to be a public record of my processes. I assure you that such rants will not become a normal part of my journal. I just thought this matter needed to be addressed and also my existential investigators recommended it.
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This is pretty much the reason I stopped asking questions, or even contributing in the forums. I like the journals though, from my little experience using them, I've been able to tell that the attitude is way more positive and helpful than it is in the forums, and apprently the chat channel.

As for one of your questions, I just looked in www.turbosquid.com and saw there is one golf course, if you're willing to dish out $68.50.

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Thanks! I've looked at that one before though. It's not actually a golf course but says it could be made into one. More of a country scene I think. I appreciate your attempts none-the-less.

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Disclaimer: Most of this post, I'm speaking as a member of GDNet, not a moderator. i.e. My views aren't necessarily those of GameDev.net, except where I wear the moderator hat (and it'll be obvious when I do [smile])

Quote:
But unfortunately I see a tendency for many of you to purposely hurt other’s feelings.

I think the problem is unprofessionality - the majority of the populace (especially on #gamedev) is young, amateur programmers. Teenagers. So you have a higher chance of stumbling into idiots (I'm not saying teenagers are idiots, I'm saying many teenagers are idiots but then they drop it when they grow up)

Quote:
For instance, today I went into the #gamedev chat room for my second time. I asked if anyone knows of any strategy or rpg games that allow you to control your own kingdom. I’m interested in researching this kind of game for development. While I was waiting for someone to reply I also asked if anyone knew of any place I could get a 3D model of a golf course. I’m also interested in making a golf simulation. The replies were very sarcastic. “That’s a very specific game style”, one said. And in reply to the golf course question I got, “3ds max…when you make it yourself.” Then they began to make fun of my questions by asking their own questions about obscure models with base 13 numbers in a very specific file format.

They thought you were a n00b. GameDev (and #gamedev) does get lots of beginners who act in very weird ways, and then don't listen to advice, so they get flamed. Unfortunately, the automatic *shortcut* response now to any suspect is sarcasm like you experienced.

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This hurt. I became frustrated and replied, “Damn! Why are so many game developers sarcastic instead of helpful / friendly?” I then left the chat room in protest.

I'm really sorry this happened. But if I were you, I'd do something different. I'd point the idiots to my journal and/or webpage, so that they see for themselves I'm not an idiot, or a n00b. And then proceed on with the questions.

And, from my experience, #gamedev really isn't that much of a technical discussion place. It's more lounge-like. If you want to have a good discussion, make sure there's someone sane there, like Washu, Muer, Fruny, Superpig, ...etc

Quote:
This has not been the only instance of such badgering. Don’t we have a great place here? Isn’t GameDev the most awesome place for people to share ideas and help each other out? It seems to me that many of the people who develop games while exceeding in their art lack the simple skill of common courtesy. So please be kind to one another. Respect each other’s ideas and please provide assistance when asked. And if you are unable to help then just swallow your pride and say so. I am quite talented and quite capable. But my feelings can still be hurt.

If you have any suggestions on how to improve the situation, go ahead. I'll forward them to staff (if someone doesn't chime in here already). We've been focusing lately on these kinds of problems, trying to iron them out. If/when a similar situation arises in one of the technical forums, rest assured that the appropriate action is taken.

Quote:
Postscript: I apologize to my normal readers. I generally intend this journal to be a public record of my processes. I assure you that such rants will not become a normal part of my journal. I just thought this matter needed to be addressed and also my existential investigators recommended it.

No need to apologize - We thank you for bringing such problems into attention. We want to make this a better place for serious developers, like yourself.

Quote:
This is pretty much the reason I stopped asking questions, or even contributing in the forums.

Now that's just sad [sad]. The way to improve is to participate, not go away. The proper way to remove garbage is to replace it with something useful, not leave it and go. Report to us. We have an army of moderators just to make this place a healthy medium for developer interaction.

Regarding the Golf course:
Why don't you make one with your new-born modelling skills? You're a professionally paid artist now [smile]
(Googling came up with golfviz.com, but it's down at the moment)

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Quote:

Now that's just sad . The way to improve is to participate, not go away. The proper way to remove garbage is to replace it with something useful, not leave it and go. Report to us. We have an army of moderators just to make this place a healthy medium for developer interaction.


I don't disagree, but I have found these journals to be more conducive to professionalism. And I still read the forums, I just don't participate because I want to avoid situations such as the one discussed here (I really don't have time for it). But, you are right, and I will make the effort to chime in when opportune.

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True, I find #GameDev to have a completely different feel then GameDev.net . Most of the people are usually willing to help out and actually give positive input, but others, no. I've physically met Ibutsu and Zahlman, who both of which are #GameDev'ers and both of which are great guys.... But I have to agree with you. If some of the people don't realize that you're serious, then there are just crap replies. It's sad.

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Thanks everyone!
Quote:
Why don't you make one with your new-born modelling skills? You're a professionally paid artist now
Ha Ha. I'd love to start making a 3D golf course of my own but I just can't seem to find the time to do it. I'm busy working on other things at the moment. I'll probably be more inspired to do it, in a couple of months, when the snow clears and I can start playing again.

Quote:
I'm really sorry this happened. But if I were you, I'd do something different. I'd point the idiots to my journal and/or webpage, so that they see for themselves I'm not an idiot, or a n00b.
That was the first thing I did. I said I make games and then pointed them to my game website. Oh well.

Quote:
I don't suppose you've got logs of this? I'd like to find out who was involved.
Nope, I didn't think of that.

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