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Leaving gamedev.net

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Raduprv

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This is basically an "I am leaving gamedev.net" post, which many would post in the Lounge, but I know better than that. Posting in a forum that you are leaving is generally believed to be poor taste. If you are going to leave, just leave. Besides, I have already stated that I am not going to post on the forums, and I would not like to break my word.
So this is why I am posting this here, in my dev journal, which is "my territory", so to say.

It all started a few days ago when I posted this thread in the Lounge.
It wasn't the most feasible or practical idea ever, but in a perfect world people would just ignore it, politely tell you why the idea is bad, or just debate on ways this could be done, just for the sake of it.
In the real world, on the other hand, and sadly on our colorfull Lounge in particular, just disagreeing with someone is not good enough. You have to act like a pig about it, and really insult and ridicule that person. You have to make subsequent idiotic parody threads, just to emphasis how much that person sucks. And don't forget the main ingredient: The rating system has to be used to it's full extent and just rate down that person, because, well, he disagrees with you.

This is obviously not an isolated incident. Over the time I've been relatively nice and polite on the gamedev.net forums. I did help people every once in a while, and lately I had rarely asked for any help in return. Either way, I believe I helped people far more than I've been helped. I never hesitated to share my knowledge on MMORPGs, either in articles, replies on the forum, or PMs.

I was also pretty open about my beliefs (mainly that there is a creator and inherent purpose in this Universe) and this caused a lot of people here to rate me down, because if I don't think like them I must be the enemy. Obviously, having divergent oppinions means that I am a moron, and morons are not only unhelpful, but also dangerous, and they have to be eliminated.
In the past, only a few hundread years ago, we were burning people for saying that the Earth is revolving around the sun (from a heliocentric point of view).
This days, fortunately, there are laws in most of the countries that would prevent you from killing someone just because they disagree with your views. Unfortunately, people's mentality didn't change much, so instead of killing you they are trying to hurt you with whatever tools they have available. In this case, the only tools are the rating system and the 'keyboard'.

Don't get me wrong, I am not leaving because of my rating. If it were under 1K, maybe I would have left because of it. But since it is pretty high, that's not the real reason.
The real reason is, as you might have guessed, people being assholes. Jumping at your throat and trying to exploit any perceived weakness. They belive that only because they 'know' that there is no God and the evolution (pure random chance) is the way it happened, they are supperior. It doesn;t matter that many of them didn't achieve anything useful in their lives, it doesn't matter if they know or not anything about science, what matters to them is that they are clearly superior for not believing in something so stupid as the idea of a creator.

I find this kind of attitude disgusting, and I do not wish to share my knowledge with such people, nor do I want to spend my time in their company. This is the reason I am leaving.

Oh, and I have nothing against those who believe in evolution, as long as they respect the fact that others don't.

To end this long rant, I will still update my journal until my subscription expires (in January) and I will respond to my PMs here.
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I stopped visiting the Lounge 3 or 4 years ago. IIRC it's always been full of idiots posting garbage. Now I visit a few specific forums covering topics I have interest and/or experience in. I only view threads whose titles seem interesting and only post if I have something to contribute to the discussion. For the most part, moronic or insulting posts are much fewer outside of the Lounge. Most discussions are civil and usually there's at least one person who posts something on target and genuinely helpful to someone.

Don't take it personally. We are all of us anonymous faces behind virtual identities. Some people view that as a License to Insult and Generally be an Asshat. They may abuse the rating system, but in the end it balances out. I don't pay attention to how high a rating is. The only thing that matters is whether or not it's red. In the end, the morons will eventually get banned and the good guys won't.

So rather than abandoning GDNet, why not just forego the Lounge and continue to put your knowledge to use helping others who appreciate it in relevant forums? Save general discussions like your Mars idea for rational people who have the ability to participate in an intelligent conversation and forget about morons who hide behind their anonymity.

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That thread is a joke. Not because of the idea that was presented in the initial post, but because a bunch of jerks decided to come in and flaunt their supposed superiority. Just because the idea isn't that feasible, does not give anyone the right to be a jerk. The fact that random people are now posting "I hope this isn't as stupid as a tube between two plants" is sickening, and I find it highly amusing how people will fight against people bashing newbies, but will defend the bashing of anyone else. I would have thought man would have learned that being a jerk is pointless some few thousand years ago, guess I was wrong.

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Hey, don't give up on Gamedev (and I think Aldacron's idea is good also). There are always numpties who will jump in with two left feet, but that's their problem, not yours. I think you have given some good help to people on these forums (although I've not read everything that you've written word-for-word, as a lot of it is waay over my head - not technical-minded see) and it would be a shame to go just because of stuff said in the lounge.

Just wanted to give my support :)

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In case you haven't noticed, you're the 24th most highly-rated poster in GameDev, with a rating higher than a moderator. So, you're going to leave because three(3) people rated you down(and 1 up),nes8bit posted a parody thread and APC was rude? The same "Well, there's always the single player campaign" APC?

You're in a huge community, and you reject it because of 2-3 people? This is like saying that the hundrends of users that has rated you up are worth less than those few others. I was rated down by 60+ points once because I dared to call "loser" a guy that posted a pic of a drunk passed out girl in his room. So what? I'm not going to leave because some people judged me negatively. I think you're leaving because of an ego issue, and I think you're wrong, because most people here respect you, like your rating indicates beyond doubt.

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To be honest, I think your reasons for leaving are pretty horrible reasons. Don't get me wrong, I respect you and love having you around. Your journal and thread posts are extremely interesting reads and I would hate to have either of them disappear. But you're going to have to make better reasons then "people in the Lounge are idiots". We all know that the Lounge is there for the minions. The true lords of GameDev reside in the other forums and that is what GameDev is really about. You don't come to GameDev for the Lounge, you come to GameDev for its game development forums and community. And if you find a better community then GameDev, I'll sell you my soul [wink].

Just stay off the Lounge. I use to frequently visit the Lounge. Now I only briefly check it out every week or so. As for user bashing, I think it's a horribly rude thing and doesn't get anyone anywhere. You're much better then that and deserve way more respect.

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I say don't give up on the site either. There is still a lot that you can do to help around here. Don't let a few people hold you down.

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Hmm, ok, I will give it a try and stay off the lounge, see what happens.

@Mikeman: Like I was saying, that thread wasn't the only reason. In every single god damn thread about ID and/or Evolution, I've been massively rated down by the intollerant idiots here, and even called various other names for having divergent points of views. That thread was just the last drop.

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I'd be sorry to see you leave, Raduprv. From what I've read the short time I've been here you seem to be a talented programmer and game maker; the sort with the skills that make these forums useful.

I'd also recommend to steer clear of the Lounge (I've been posting there too much myself lately); about 99% of what's posted there is meaningless anyway. While I think it's perfectly okay to disagree with someone's opinion, it's another thing to argue with disrespect. And I also think the amount of "joke" threads that are created at the expense of someone else are starting to become a bit tedious (and this doesn't just refer to you; bashing newbies has become a bit too prevalent for my tastes as well).

But I've rarely seen people being insulted for their ideas outside of the Lounge; I've had some great discussions about game ideas on the Design forum which have never disintegrated into flames.

Furthermore, I'd hate it if the reason you left was because of intolerance towards your opinions or beliefs. I joined these forums as a GDNet+ member because this is the one place on the 'net where I saw people have intelligent debates about complex topics that didn't just descend into hurling abuse. The last thing I'd want is for the forums to become a monoculture where anyone who dissents from the majority group-think is ostracised (which is pretty much what every other message board has become).

So please don't leave just because of the actions of a few idiots in the Lounge!

Besides, I might need your help if I ever decide to make a MMORPG [wink]

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The Lounge might have been once a place where to debate in an intelligent way, but that has changed in the last 2 years or so.
Just read any Evolution vs. ID topic, and you'll see that there has to be some name calling and stuff.
Basically, anythign that involves religion or politics will inevitably cause flames and ad hominem attacks.

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That remindes me of a quote I once heard on Charlie Brown:
"There are three things I have learned never to discuss with people: religion, poliics, and the great pumpkin".

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I guess that Intelligent Design and Intelligent Behavior are really two separate things ^_^

But that's right that if you stay out of the lounge, you'll probably feel better - and more helpful. I tend to think twice before posting to the lounge - mostly because of all these supposedly smart guys who lives there. But when I am able to help someone, I really fell good :) - take care, it is addictive [grin]

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