I'd like it to be optional. The love theme in FFX was extremely tedious, and it occuppied so much gametime that it seriously detracted from my enjoyment of the gameplay. If a plot event will be inevitable, then try to minimize the amount of time it occupies. Put that dialogue in a battle, or reward me with a new item for watching them stutter and sweet-talk for ten minutes, but don't think that watching those two stumble through their juvenile courting process is a reward in and of itself. It isn't.

Watching two characters slowly fall in love over the course of fifty cut-scenes is like watching a character slowly build a sand castle over the same stretch. Sure, it's a fine and interesting process, but unless it's a critical element in the game's plot, you can probably gloss over it and deal instead with the finished product. To clarify: It may be critical that they BE in love, but all the time and dialogue that contributed to them FALLING in love might be extraneous. Judge carefully, because it's cruel to subject a player like me to a harlequin romance when i want to be chopping things to death.

The system used by Fire Emblem 4 is excellent. It's wholly optional, requires a degree of effort, and rewards the player with, in that case, children later in the game who can bring special skills and strengths to the fighting team.

Make it worth our while, and we'll be all about it. Make it a requirement, and we'll go through with it to progress in the game. Have it consume time and offer nothing, and we'll be annoyed.

Editted for typos, but I probably missed some.

[edited by - Iron Chef Carnage on March 17, 2004 3:59:06 PM]

I think its cool to have some optional romance, FFX I didnt liked so much because falling for Yuna was a requirement, and I could not care less about her, I wanted to get into Lulu''s pants, she kept rejecting me because I HAD to go for crybaby Yuna, and everytime I "was" with her, I kept wondering what could Lulu be doing .

So the lesson is provide variety or make the required character to fall in love with the only female character or so perfect as to apeal to all tastes.

At the end of FFX I was all "good finished this thing, moving on", Rinoa in FFVIII on the other hand was so perfect I shed some tears at the end, as I did on Aeris death in FFVII.

Also, remember that there is already a gendre for romance games, its called "Love Sim" and its pretty popular in Japan, if you want to play a game all about romance I recomend you try them, the''re not so bad, even though they play more like an interactive novel.

There are a lot of games with romance in them and even entire genres focused on romance (dating sims), but I''m sure many of you know this, especially Sunandshadow. The thing is, does any game really do romance well? Sure you can make it part of a linear or multilinear storyline, but I think for romance to be considered any more than a sub-theme in a game it needs to be part of the core gameplay.

Most, if not all, games that use romance for their core gameplay either have choose your own adventure style gameplay or use RPG style stat building or some combination of the two. Stat building is the more interactive of the two, but what other gameplay mechanics can you apply to romance? Has anyone done a romantic "action" game where timing matters? I think that two games that do romance gameplay pretty well are the Sims and Tokimeki Memorial. They rely on stat building but they do it right.

I don''t think you can create a game based on the idealized concept of true love. This isn''t really because I think it''s a bad idea, it''s just very hard to force emotion on players. You can''t give the player the experience of the horror of war in an FPS, and you can''t make the player fall hopelessly in love with some videogame girl.

Romance, imo, falls into two different categories. The courtship phase, which is more interesting gameplay wise, and the relationship phase. Have their been any relationship management games? That could be an interesting genre.

Here are a few random romance based gameplay ideas I''ve had in the past:

1. A game that takes place over multiple generations. This idea was ripped off slightly from Phantasy Star 3. In this case if you don''t spend some of your time trying to find a mate and produce an heir the game will end. This is a pretty good incentive for players to act romantic.

2. A game that uses a large, semi-generic (it would change based on personality traits of the player and the person they''re talking to) conversation\action tree along with some personality stats. The difference between this and you standard dating game is that timing matters. Also, you make choices everytime you say or do something, rather than going through long stretches of reading storyline. This makes talking to girls (or guys) similar to a Final Fantasy battle, or maybe even a fighting game with a massive move list and a lot of context sensitivity.

3. Relationship management. A strategy game similar to the Sims perhaps. Your goal is to keep an already existing relationship going until you reach some point (marriage, death, divorce, etc.)

Pursuing a relationship of any kind, and in particular the romantic variety, requires a strong motivation. Relationships, like any meaningful endeavor, will inevitably require sacrifice and dedication. If I'm not dedicated to the objectives of any video game, be it chopping, plot, or wooing, I won't be interested in playing it, unless the gameplay is terrific and a reward unto itself. Romance requires an emotional investment, which is primarily the domain of writing, although design is inextricably tied up in every aspect of a game.

quote:Original post by sunandshadow
I could just as well say, "It's cruel to subject a player like me to chopping things to death when I want a harlequin romance." I have no more obligation to cater to people who aren't interested in romance than the average RPG designer has to cater to people who don't like hack and slash.

Very true, but in you original post you seek interest in "games with romance in them". For games in a "romance" genre, there is no doubt as to the appropriateness of that particular content. However I inferred that you were (and are) interested in interjecting romance into any sort of game. My beef with FFX was that I signed up for an RPG, not a feature film about two teenagers falling in love. Likewise, if you made a dating sim that required you wander around the mall kissing random girls to boost your kissing skill level, that would probably detract from the overall experience (or not).

If romance is going to be a secondary or tertiary game element, I maintain that it should be relegated to a less prominent position than it was in FFX. Make it a mini-game, or a side-quest that has little impact on the game itself, but might influence the ending. In FF2 (FFIV), the relationship between Rosa and Cecil was introduced in the first minutes of the game as a romantic one, and later on they behaved appropriately, embracing after being separated or endangered, showing disproportionate concern for the other's well being in a variety of situations, and making sacrifices for one another. Edge and Rydia gradually fell in love in the course of the game, but it was conveyed via a series of brief interactions and some light humor. Romance was an element in that game as it was in FFX, it was a passive story element as it was in FFX, but it did not dominate a large portion of the story, as the romance in FFX did. That's important to me.

A big part of game design is balancing different features. I think that the romance in FFX was poorly balanced, and I hope that you are more careful with your designs. Enthusiasm to include an innovative feature should not overpower enthusiasm to produce a coherent, balanced product.

Edit: failed to close my quote.

[edited by - Iron Chef Carnage on March 17, 2004 8:44:06 PM]

[edited by - Iron Chef Carnage on March 17, 2004 8:46:17 PM]