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shurcool

should this team-based shooter stay 2d?

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ok guys, i like counter-strike and such games, but i though if it had more teamplay it'd be better. anyway, for a 2d game we're making, i made a simple 2d collision detection and responce demo. from there, i started to add weapon and particles classes. and now i'm thinking to actually make it a simple multiplayer game. it will not only be a game, but it will help us (i'm not alone doing the 2d game) make the original 2d game, since it is abslutely the same engine-wise, except for one major difference - no changeable land (changeable lang means after you shoot a gun, there'll be a crater left, so you can modify the lang in real-time). that makes our job a whole lot easier, since we don't have to worry about it beign sync on all clients, optimizing it in real-time, etc. and focus on other things. anyway, here's what i have so far (or at least the latest uploaded version), to give you an idea what i'm talking about. sure, it's not pretty or anything yet, everything is just lines and circles, but when complete, it will be textured. the controls are: w/s/a/d - move around mouse horizontal movement - look around left mouse button - shoot r - reload b - buy clips hold shift - stealth mode (walk/crouch) download it below - there's a newer version in one my replies! ok, now onto my question. so far the map is small, and the player can always see as far as he possible could from 1st person perspective. but let's say we have a bigger map, and the player would not be able to see further than what he sees on screen. my question is how should i go about that? and how would i do such guns as sniper rifles? how would i do their zoomed scope view? my only idea is to make the game 3d. i'm not saying make the whole engine 3d, but instead make it render everything in 2d, but from, sort of like 3rd person perspecive. the game still stays 2d, but you could see much further. do you have any better ideas? and another question. since it's not 1st person, you can see behind walls. should i make it so that you could only see players that aren't hidden behind walls? and this would add a great teamplay feature. if any member of one team sees a member of the opposite team, the whole 1st team will see that other team member. that makes it easy for someone else to go behind, and backstab him, while your teammate distracts him. ok, back to this question. should i make it so that you see the whole map always, as long as it's on your screen (in strategy games this would be called "no fog-of-war"?. or should i hide any walls that are blocked by another wall in the level, making you only see what you would from 1st person perspective. since it's a 2d game, i don't have to worry about graphics as much, so i can focus on gameplay and so on, i would love to hear any suggestion you might have for a 2d team-based fps. thanks for your time, i hope you could find some to write a responce. thanks. --- shurcool my project [edited by - shurcool on June 26, 2002 10:33:30 AM]

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Cool game! the blue guy always gets me, he must have inhuman reflexes

Defintely stick with 2D, as it requires less art and truthfully for the concepts you want to explore, it is more than sufficent. Going 3D will just distract you, unless you have the resources to do it right, you''ll spend alot of your time on the graphics, which from what i understantd isn''t the main focus. Another slant on 2D is isometric 2D. I always wanted a multiplayer realtime X-com

Good Luck!

-ddn

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well, he always points at you and shoots, so you can get him while he''s reloading.

and you probably misunderstood me when i reffered to 3d (you didn''t read the whole thing, did you? ). i''ll explain better with pictures.

2d 2d:


3d 2d:


do you get it now? that way (the 3d 2d one) you can see really far, even if the map is huge. i still don''t know how to do sniper rifles... any ideas?


---
shurcool
my project

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I think I understand. I''d stick with the top down for one, as walls scrunched onto the floor look akward. The scope, well it''s function is to make the target bigger for you to aim at, whether your in 1st or third person. Is the cross hair a fixed direction or can he just shoot where the mouse is pointed? If it''s not fixed I don''t see why it can''t zoom in, even if it isn''t from the avatars perspective. I''d play that.

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well, the perspective view looks screwed up because i modified the original one in paint! if i were to modify the program to render it in perspective mode, it would look much better.

and about crosshair: so far i don''t have one. i was thinking to put one in the center of screen, but for more accurate guns i would move the crosshair further away... but then what if your target is really close to you? if the crosshair is too far away, you won''t be able to hit him. so maybe you should be able to move it up/down using mouse, and it would have a limit on how far up (away from player) you could move it. that limit would be different for each gun.

and about inaccuracy. all guys will be very accurate, but when you shoot, depending on gun''s recoil power, your rotation (where you''re facing) will randomly shake, sort of. so it''d be hard to control in full-auto fire, and a lot easier and with more accurate results, if you shot in bursts. and when you run, the magnitude of random "rotations" (which send your aim off) that recoil of a gun has would increase, as opposed to if you duck and stay still, in which case it would decrease, allowing you to shoot more accurately. any comments/suggestions about that?

---
shurcool
my project

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i tried to block player''s view to whatever you would see in his position from 1st person perspective, not allowing you to see through walls.

here is the result.

download here.

the problem is that because of a visual illusion happening there, it may seem that there are vertical black walls going up.

do you think it would be too confuzing? if yes, what''s a better solution?

and i came up with one possible solution: only not draw enemies if they''re blocked by a wall, but always draw the whole map. what do you think?

thank you very much, all your suggestions will be greately appreciated!

---
shurcool
my project

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I''ve had ideas for a game much like the one you''re working on. My thoughts on sniper rifles and other long range weapons would be actually moving the camera away from the player. Normally, the camera is situated directly above the player''s head, right? When the player pulls out his sniper rifle (or binoculars) he could gain the ability to move the camera a good distance away from himself, while retaining the ability to shoot at things that he is now able to better see.

-Mike

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Guest Anonymous Poster
well, im making a great game like that too (overhead 2d, amazing graphics) although not that cool 2d 3d stuff anyways, the way i was going about zooming (or plan to, rather) is like this:

because mine is straight down overhead, once the player pulls out a rifle, and hits zoom, this is what happens

the game puts black where you cant see, which leaves a good sized line from the player to where he is pointing (like shading where you wouldnt see because of the scope).

then i let the player use the mouse to zoom-in/zoom-out by moving the screen along this line of sight, always keeping whats out of view of the scope drawn black.

as the screen reaches the farthest distance, i slowly fade the line of sight to black, and then dont let the screen go any further...

just an idea

--sic nemesis, the sicgamemaker

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hey, i think that's a great idea! and it is sort of like zooming in/out! i really like it, thanks.

i'm wondering, do you allow the player to see others through walls, or?

well, here's an update to my previous (eX0_3) attempt at limiting your field of view zone to what you would see from your character's 1st perspective.

first of all, here's a screenshot, showing off the evolution of eX0. the last two shots (3, and 4) are attemts at this. shot #3 shows how i used to do it, and shot #4 shows how i did it in version. i really hope you guys like it, so try it out.



and due to many requests, i made the bot skill level easier. now, as long as you're enough far away from him, and you're moving, his bullets should hit where you were a second ago, missing you, and giving you a chance to kill him.

download it here.

make sure you extract with folders: don't just put all files in one folder, the folder structure has to be intact, or it wouldn't work (properly).

also, if it crashes, which is mostly due to heavy use of the stencil buffer, please post about that, and your video card name please.

any comments/suggestions/ideas are greately appreciated too.

---
shurcool
my project

[edited by - shurcool on June 26, 2002 10:34:18 AM]

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