Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

RTS++

This topic is 5648 days old which is more than the 365 day threshold we allow for new replies. Please post a new topic.

If you intended to correct an error in the post then please contact us.

Recommended Posts

Yay! I love it when there are a bunch of threads going on about strategy games. The recent talk gave me an idea for new way of doing it. First things first, since when do two armies meet at a random location and start shooting each other for no reason. War is happens because two countries declare war on each other, which is in turn caused by a bunch of reasons: expansion, contested land, economic policy, long standing grudges, etc. We don''t need to force the player to manage a country. I just think the conflicts should develop naturally(I would consider something akin to an economy or alife simulator or even scripts written by the game designer as naturally). The player would choose which country he wants to represent and that might also affect what kind of conflicts will occur and their victory conditions. Each player could have a totally unique experience. There would be alliances and coalitions and possibly world wars, the player could just watch events unfold and choose how high a commander they wish to be. My premise is that the strategy games aren''t strategy games cause they simply aren''t put into context. Even when they are, you only do a small portion of the war at a time, so instead of going through 40 missions written by the game designers to capture a planet, you start with the goal of capturing the entire planet. See, even then, knowing that you must capture the planet puts everything you do in a context, without that, everything is just a random battle. You wouldn''t even need to control the entire planet''s forces at a time. The player would be given the starting disposition of allied and opposing forces and pick what and when and how to fight from there, then we go into clickfest mode-cause it may be where strategy doth lie, but looking at a map is boring.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
OK, let''s say the polity you''ve chosen to represent is pretty much automated, leaving you to fight the wars rather than build grain silos or anti-matter processors...

If the player is in charge of invading an entire planet, but must micromanage divisions, how are they to manage the war effort globally? If they''re busy in the Northern Hemisphere, does the rest of the game stop until they take care of things? If so, you lose some aspect of multiplayer, unless there''s some voting system on where the next battle will be. (Btw, if you kick out the global aspect for multiplayer, you lose the appeal of the game and it becomes yet another RTS).

If the entire war is the player''s responsibility, but time does not stop, then you''re left sticking the player with unfair losses that he couldn''t micromanage in time.

You might take the approach of Conquest:Frontier Wars, which had 2 minimaps. One map was a normal minimap, and the other indicated on which maps there was a conflict. But I have to admit that that game got very hectic, and had several troop micromanagement issues.

--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
One battle at a time, maybe they get to pick and choose.
I think fighting in multiplayer mode in the same war but in differnt battles would certainly be an interesting and new experience, forcing you to choose your battles carefully, adding more strategy to a game. Each player would also need to adjust how much reinforcemnts and other supplies each theater should get. Just because a player picks a battle doesn''t mean they would win when facing the computer. (Maybe just picking a battle out of many to be guaranteed a win would be a whole new strategy game in itself, don''t have as many graphics to bother about. Although that would essentially be a board game like Go or Reversals wouldn''t it?)

As for single player, creating a campaign, hmmm...
Anyone remember the narrative interpolation thread? That technique might be applied to this. If there are initially 10 different places where the player would have a battle, there''s lots of ways it could end.
http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=75556

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I dont know if anyone other than myself has ever thuoght of this but I always wanted to see something like this done for a Mech Warrior game. Making it part simulator and part RTS. I wanted to be able to do research for new weapon types and barter for parts and mechs. Then design city layouts and place different types of turrets in different locations in them. All the while sending mechs and tanks to other places, and defending my own territories.

Wow, I need to write this all down...
~Vendayan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MechCommander 2 was as close to that as it got, but that didn''t allow for all you want to do. It basically turned into another RTS of (IMHO) dubious value.

Otherwise I agree w/ Grat, sounds like you want a real time version of Civilization.

Anaton
Flying Tigers CFSG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I''ve been thinking about this issue for a while myself. I want battles to have sense and to be at the discretion of the player, not prescripted missions. The trick is, how do you manage all of your forces at once across multiple theatres of conflict?

I''ve been a proponent of having intelligent agents be "helping hands" in RTS games. I think many players are leary of relinquishing control over to AI routines, but if you think about it, in RL, that''s what real life generals have to do....entrust their units to other officers. In a multi-player game you can assign players various theatres of operations where they will then hand control the units themselves.

But your point does illustrate the problem of trying to create a context that makes sense...but at the same time allowing for the player to control vast worlds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dauntless, I SERIOUSLY suggest MAster of Orion to you. I think the version I played was MoO2 but I''m not 100% positive. Anyway it''s a sci-fi based RTS where you actually maintain some sort of ''Galactic Empire'' but the thing is that you are in a galaxy with up to as many as 7 other empires. You eventually meat the all through the game and sometimes its easy to make allys and sometimes you mistkenly realize that you tried to colonize a planet that was within a star system they claimed as thier own. In that case war breaks out. You can try to beat them in the war by brute force (which usually results in one of you losing a few planets before someone makes a peace-offering or surrenders).

You also not only have to manager an economy BTW but also the research of new technologies such as in warcraft or AoE. Although in this game there are FAR more technologies you can research. Another particularly nice aspect of this game I liked was that you can completely customize every unit you make. when you build a starship you can modify its engine, shield type, armor, weapons (which some of the larger ones can carry hundreds of at once) and even the shape of the ship. You also customize the colonies you make by adding ground to space weaponry, tank factories (for deploying on a previously colonized planet to take it over without nuking it), research facilities, and MANY other types of buildings.

This game is also never the same twice. Never even remotely the same twice. Sometimes you will find that brute force is the way to beat a given game, and sometimes you''ll hire professional assisins and spies to defeat your enemies in a more suddle fashion and your enemies will never handle you in quite the same way either.

I think this game is exactly what you may be looking for also BTW, because if you''re the type who plays Black & White as a saintly god, the hardest game you''ll ever play in Master of Orion is where all the other empires are extremely peaceful. Then you''ll have problems hehe.

~Vendayan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites