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features make the game?

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do you think that if a bunch of little extras/ nuances are added to a game, they would help extend the longevity of the game? things like: (not all of these features will make it into the final build of the game, but as it stands this is the ideal feature list for the project) water/raindrops splashing and soaking clothing on a model realistically (lowers the alpha value of the "dry" skin to reveal the "wet" skin underneath. white clothes can create the wet-tshirt look) ik for things like shoelaces and hair and loose equipment straps ejected bullet casings smoke (particles) as they spin and tumble out of the ejection port, and they whistle as they fall more than 10 feet fire actually burns, as in chars the burning object and in conjunction to burning animations (parts break off or shrivel) and scaling eventually burn up models EAX effects pitch-shift the sounds of bullets flying by, so along with the 30+ sounds for them we have an almost unlimited variety! also allows us to simulate heavy rounds flying slower than normal rounds. models actually make eye contact, their fingers actually touch the triggers of their guns, the clasps of their equipment, the pins of their grenades, the keys on security keypads, their feet actually touch the steps of stairs. bumpmaps change based on conditions, such as when out of breath (low on stamina) the bumpmap changes to that of one with raised veins in the temples/wrist/ etc. in cold temperatures the same principle is used for things like goosebumps, and, as much as i hate to admit it, raised nipples. (oh come on, we''ve been working our asses off for 2-1/2 years! the crew is all male, give us a break. it was good for a few laughs.) another note on temperatures: weapons jam(b?) more easily in cold weather, overheat more easily in hot weather. models "sweat" in hot temperatures, with the use of specular maps (again changing from normal greasemaps to sweaty greasemaps) and particles animated bumpmaps for wakes in water. we initially had problems getting bumpmaps to work with specular maps on transparent water, but we fixed it. hair has bumpmaps as well, for kinky textures, etc. dog/k9 unit''s fur stands on end when agitated dogs drool when their stamina is low can hear players breathing around you, especially when their stamina is low cold weather= steamy breath (particles)and shivering (polygon offset and extrude in slight intervals. pretty convincing.) facial animation consisting of a bunch of 2-6 frame animations for vowels and consonents with transition frames. can be used in conjunction to a text-to speech editor, supplied with the game. sounds a it awkward with player''s names, but since players will only be able to create their own names in multiplayer and this is an optional feature it shouldn''t matter too much. modeled teeth and tongue and innards of the mouth to accomodate such animations eax effects, which is pretty standard nowadays anyways and the list goes on but i''ll elavfe it at that. do you think all these little things will help keep the game alive?

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Um, yeah, i know that.

Along with good gameplay, if these features were incorperated into a finished game would the player say something to the effect of "wow, how come i didnt see that before?"

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I recon let your team have two weeks(??) to implement a few of those features( or anything cool ).

Make it the add cool features week/s. Where everyone just goes sick adding little features.

Also adding cool features and not worrying about functionality is a nice bit of a change!

If it''s easy to implement, fun, and just looks cool I say go for it! Especially if it''s a game play element.


Little hacks, and cool effects can make the game heaps more popular too. I remember reading an interview with one of the guys who worked on the mortal kombat game. He said that the blood was just an afterthought. Something they just added in at the end. Turned out to be a most popular feature *grin*, and made it stand out from its competition.

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I think it can help sell the game more, but I don''t think it would increase the longevity. I think gameplay is the biggest factor(maybe the only one) in the longevity of a game.

---
Make it work.
Make it fast.

"Commmmpuuuuterrrr.." --Scotty Star Trek IV:The Voyage Home

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ok... i will buy that game just for all those features (at this time... in 3-5 years that''ll be a standard), if i had a geforce 4 ti4600 on some amd 3000+. it''s like a *u**ing doom 5!

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shurcool
my project

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not all of the worlds computer together will be able to play that game...

I say just one thing... Gameplay makes the game!

If you add a bunch of cool but useless features you will lower the every-day-joe''s performance like hell! And low framerate on a game definitly interupt the gameplay. Making it alot worse...

The effects belong in visual demos, not in a fun playable game... Of course it''s always nice to see something really cool in a game (Red Faction: glass breaks, things physically damaged ... Morrowind: the water effect and so on)... But it doesn''t make the game (Although I do emit it''s fun to just walk around on the glasshouse level in RF )...


I just wanted you to be aware of performance issuse that can arise and that can ruin the whole game! I Praise all fun games that has no real graphical stand-outs... A boring game trying to make it through visual effects... I''m not saying your game is boring at the time (I have no idea about that), but you get my point...

/G

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I would say gameplay is a root factor in how long a game lives...

But the little extras can play a part too.

For instance, in EverQuest, the rainstorms did little to affect gameplay except reduce visibility. Not a huge tactical effect since you''re just running around looking for creatures to engage, anyway.

But the thunder and the sound of the rain had a soothing effect, and just added to the pleasantry of the experience. Had that not been there, it might have seemed too monotonous sooner. Although for me, it eventually felt monotonous anyway.

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I agree. Eye candy cannot make a better game. A lot of games today try to use gimics to try to make the game long laster. For instace Red Faction, they tried to make the game last longer by letting you blow up terrain. I played the game for about 7 hours (Thats all it took to pass) then never played it again. Also we have Max Payne, they foccused almost all their power on eye candy. If you have ever seen this game it looks almost realistic. I played through it twice, never to touch it again.

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quote:
Original post by illume
I recon let your team have two weeks(??) to implement a few of those features( or anything cool ).

Make it the add cool features week/s. Where everyone just goes sick adding little features.

Also adding cool features and not worrying about functionality is a nice bit of a change!



And how many weeks do you assign to sorting out and debugging all the little quirks that arise as a result of throwing all this stuff in?

While a couple of these features may add to immersiveness, and thus improve the quality of the player''s experience, the vast majority of these ''features'' would just go unnoticed by the players. Who the hell looks at what direction their opponent''s eyes are looking, or whether their shoelaces are untied when they are lining up a rocket launcher shot?

Rather than spend time adding features which hardly anyone will notice(and in the process, more bugs and incompatibility problems which people WILL notice) spend your time making the game stable, and improving the gameplay.

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so, what you''re saying is if it impacts performance too much that it''s just not worth doing it?

it''s really not a "game" as much as it is a "resume/portfolio". we''re trying to get jobs in the game/movie industry, were told this would be a good way to go.

ok, now answer me this:

if none of these features were listed on the box, never even mentioned anywhere but WERE implemented, do you think it would add to the whole "holy sh*t!" factor?

and another thing: the game isn''t a quake clone, more like a videogame version of Black Hawk Down, the Thin Red Line, The Matrix, The Fifth Element, Virus, and Saving Private Ryan.

not meant for a broad audience of game players.


and the current minimum system requirement is

a geforce 4 ti4000
2ghz+ processor
512mb+ RAM
EAX supported soundcard


i can''t run or test any of this so i cant take screenshots, but if i get any i''ll be sure to let you know. i could show you some model renders, i guess.

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An idea might be to over the next few (3 to maybe even 10) years and add these features one at a time throughout several projects and by that time these things will be pheasable in a single enviornment, but even now, it''s something that even the fastest computers will choke on. Nobody knows what the hardware market will do in the future, it could suddenly hit a wall somewhere and not be able to go faster, leaving you with a game that will barely run on that hardware.



I know only that which I know, but I do not know what I know.

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Trite expressions such as "Gameplay makes the game" really don''t do the topic justice. The definition of gameplay relates to all meaningful interactions in a game. Most features that you think of as "fun" are elements of gameplay. Tiny details that "no player will notice" are important because there are millions of details that you don''t notice around you that make the world what it is. Every tiny step we take toward realism and immersion is a step forward.

Later,
ZE.

//email me.//zealouselixir software.//msdn.//n00biez.//
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Guest Anonymous Poster
Wow! those are some high requirements. I think the features are great. You may not think you can notice them but if you are thinking that you in your mind are probabaly comparing it to real life, wether you know it or not. Compare it to other games on the market and youll notice a huge difference. It definitly would make the game funer.

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quote:
Original post by ZealousElixir
Trite expressions such as "Gameplay makes the game" really don''t do the topic justice. The definition of gameplay relates to all meaningful interactions in a game. Most features that you think of as "fun" are elements of gameplay. Tiny details that "no player will notice" are important because there are millions of details that you don''t notice around you that make the world what it is. Every tiny step we take toward realism and immersion is a step forward.



While expressions like ''gameplay makes the game'' may be trite, they also happen to be true. Features like these do not make a game. They may add a little to the level of immersiveness, but there is more to a game than a feeling of immersion.

However, if the purpose of this game is to show off your capabilities and serve as a tech demo, then go straight ahead, and add all the eye candy you can. But do spend some time making it stable, and also try optimizing a little to see if you can get it to run on a lower end system, even if you have to dynamically scale back the features. Having the game crash or not being able to run it at all won''t impress anyone.

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Yep, that was exactly the type of response I expected.

The original question was, "Do you think all these little things will help keep the game alive?"

The answer is "yes."

Later,
ZE.

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quote:
Original post by Gaping Head Wound
do you think that if a bunch of little extras/ nuances are added to a game, they would help extend the longevity of the game?

No, not at all. 95% of those things all just affect how ''cool'' the game appears, and have nil to zero bearing on how long it takes to play it or how engrossing the gameplay itself is. Given the choice of this game or an identical game without those nuances, I would choose this one. But would I play the game for longer simply because the game''s dogs had fur that stood on end? Not at all. Longevity wouldn''t be affected one iota.

[ MSVC Fixes | STL | SDL | Game AI | Sockets | C++ Faq Lite | Boost | Asking Questions | Organising code files ]

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All the features here are mainly looks and don''t have much effect on gameplay. Try putting yourself in the player''s shoes and think "do these features make me want to play longer or will i just stop noticing them after the first few hours of play". Features like you''re describing certainly add to the immersiveness of the gameplay but likely it is more of a "wow" factor that would wear off after the player is accustomed to the game.
Little features that are fairly simple to implement (IMHO) and did improve the longevity of the game are unlockable gameplay modes, secret levels, and MODifiable features. I could rant on and on. For instance Worms Armegeddon had me addicted trying to complete all the missions just so I could find out what the next feature I could unlock is. The only reason i stopped playing as frequently is that it doesn''t like running on Win XP which is what my primary machine is running on .
Anyway, to finish, features like the ones you mentioned add to the WOW factor of the game and are excellent ways of grabbing a players attention, esp if they don''t degrade performance. But these usually lose their lustre. Try adding longevity by keeping the player interested, use the old stick and the carrot. If they want to keep going they will but if they get bored yer done.


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