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# Dropkick needs maths help

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Thanks, I dont want to go to a college or anything like that. I am a person who can easily pick up books and better myself, I learn alot quicker than going to school as I did a TAFE course once (TAFE is below college for you americans) and found 99% of the people to be slow. I know people look at degrees when choosing jobs, but for me its just a waste of time, why spend hundreds or thousands when you can pick up a good book at learn it in your own time and most times quicker?

I dont want to sound like I am being a smart ass, but my family are all very intellgent, and I follow the same path. I am more intelligent than everyone I work with, and hang out with. I am very knowledgable in alot of science catagoeries, including light, Quantum, Space/Time... Though the one thing area that I suffer in is english, my native language is english, but unfortunatly all our family seem to fail in that area, while all our math skills excell. I am a quick learner when it comes to maths (i was always the A+ student doing the next year level work when it came to maths), but because I left in year 10 and due to lack of study, I have become rather lost in the more advance maths.

Sorry for the long post, I am not trying to be a smart ass saying I am better than you, just that I really just need to get some books and not look at schooling as much.

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Hobby program ?
Job program ?

If its job, then grit your teeth and get a degree.
Otherwords you most likly can say goodbye to any chance of a job, from what I hear.

Hobby, you can do down to a used book store and pick up books cheap. Just work with them unti you get it.
You will need Algerbra 1&2.
Precalculus and Calculus.
Linear Algerbra.
Physics.

Frankly, you should go get a high school equivilency.
Yes, even if 99% of the people are slow.

And get a English class or two.

~V''lion

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tagged84,

actually, i have a few questions for you.

if you don''t mind, what kind of hacking did you do? how did you get caught, and how easily did you pick it up? is it easy to pick up? did you do serious program hacking or just script kiddie stuff?

also, how do you understand light, quantum theory, and space/time without a mathematical basis? is it just that you are familiar with the concepts but not the mathematical proofs behind it?

a2k

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If you are so smart then why are you not smart enough to recognize the easiest path to get to where you want to be? You could dig a ditch with a spoon, but why would you? It is all a game of probabilities. Anything can happen, but some things are more likely than others.

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Well, learning 3D programming was my main motivation to re-discover math when I was a kid. By the time I was 13 I had re-invented 2D rotation formulas, Euler angles, perspective projection and the cosine rule for lighting, and I had a working 3D program written in basic for a Z-80 based computer that rendered a model of a plane with 28 polygons in 20 seconds (which is veeery slow, but it worked). Well, I didn''t re-invented matrix algebra or linescan algorithms..., but I think I did enough. If you can''t figure out how to make a working 3D program, I don''t know why you consider yourself so smart. Just kidding, you probably are very smart.

But even if I was pretty smart myself, I think the first year I took on Geometry ("Linear Algebra & Geometry") really opened my eyes, and the second year ("Projective Geometry") gave another twist to the subject, and now I really understand what vectors and matrices are, why the operations on them work as they do, and why they are so convinient. I had a great teacher (José Manuel Aroca), and that helped a lot. Vector spaces and linear operators are everywhere, and they are good not only for 3D programming, but also for signal processing, differential equations, number theory, physics... There is no better way to learn about them that going to college.

I didn''t learn anything useful in highschool either, but college is a totally different world. And if you put a lot of effort, you can get a lot from it. Go to college. Really, even if you are the smartest kid in the world, there is no way you will learn that much by yourself.

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yeah,

to be honest, if you don''t know trig, then you probably haven''t had algebra either. that all amounts to a TON of math that you need to learn before you start getting into linear algebra, physics or 3D geometry. I''m certainly a believer in teaching yourself things and don''t doubt that you could do it. personally the structure of shool is the easiest way to progress through those courses.

however, the bigger question you should be thinking about is eventually having a job. there are still places that will hire accomplished and proven programmers who don''t have a college degree, but there isn''t a single one that i''ve heard of that will hire you without a high school degree. and within a couple years there probably won''t be many places that''ll hire you without a college degree.

people look for school degrees b/c they demonstrate that you can stick to something and finish it even if it''s not that interesting to you. if you don''t have the discipline to stay in school, most people assume you wouldn''t be very good at having a job either. whether that is a true assumption or not, it''s the way the world works.

at least get a high school degree if you want to be a professional programmer.

if you have no interest in being a professional programmer, then head to the library and learn geometry -> trig -> algebra -> calculus -> physics -> linear algebra (probably in that order).

-me

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>if you don''t mind, what kind of hacking did you do? how did >you get caught, and how easily did you pick it up? is it easy >to pick up? did you do serious program hacking or just script >kiddie stuff?

I got a highlevel user/pass from a computer teacher (that didn''t know all too much about computers). Then I got info off the net and launched some progs on one of the main computers on the network (I asked to help fix computers). Then the day I had access to change some real data (they kept records of grades and days away on the computers, but Im sure they had paper backups), they called me up to the office. They said for the last year computers were breaking down etc.. They had hired some detectives and took them 2 months or so to track down who it was.

>also, how do you understand light, quantum theory, and >space/time without a mathematical basis? is it just that you >are familiar with the concepts but not the mathematical proofs >behind it?

I am just familiar with the concepts, I have the basics of maths and I am able to understand the general idea of the maths, just that I cant re-create it or anything like that.

I dont need to go back to highschool, there is an option here to sit a STAT test that will give me an OP. Not sure about you Americans, but an OP is an Overall Position, 1 being the best and I think it goes right up to 25, after that you just dont get an OP. It costs 300, but I figure its the best way rather than wasting a year.

Anyway, I will look at the university/college option, my mum has been bugging me to do something... At least that would please her

Thanks for all the help guys.

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How motivated are you to learn ?

If you are motivated to learn, just get few books on Linear Algebra and Calculus from your college bookshop, and learned it all by yourself.

Those aren''t that hard really, I am confident you can grasp it quickly.

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Out of curiosity, where in Australia are you (I''m in Sydney)

I would probably suggest just borrowing some of the maths text books from a library. See how well you go at teaching yourself. If that doesn''t work, even consider having a maths tutor (the ones you get from a professional organisation will set you back about AU$45 an hour, if you have a friend or some other contact who does higher level maths in your area, then you could get it done a bit cheaper (I tutor a friend for$25 an hour)).

The problem, is that just because you know that you are capable, it doesn''t do a thing to convince a potential employer. Being in Australia makes it incredibly hard to find a job at a gaming company. Most of the major companies here are linked with various colleges, so it may be worth your while to enquire with them to see what you would need to be accepted - I don''t think they work with the standard UAC thing, so you probably don''t need a UAI or a higher school certificate. They wouldn''t go astray though

I''ll probably also say that year 10 maths in Australia is pretty useless - you learn everything again in year 11 . I spent the whole of year 10 playing cricket with people in my maths class by using a ruler, bouncy ball and various other objects to represent fielders and a grandstand. Now I''m doing 4 unit maths and I''ve never had any problem with missing a year

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Ack double post, and I can't delete the first one because it was anonymous. Sorry.

Above post was me, won't happen again

[edited by - ragonastick on June 29, 2002 5:55:11 AM]

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I am highly motivated, I love programming, I have been doing it since I was 8, I had to teach myself Hypercard (mac users would remember that). Just that I cant find any books or recommened books on math, I should just use your advice and get some year 10/11/12 math books. I think my best bet would be to learn math by myself and then do schooling, that way I can come ontop with top marks

I live on the Gold Coast, which is MEANT to be the information technology capital of Australia... Actually has anyone from Australia heard much about the 3d game programming course in Brisbane (and I think sydney/meb?). I forgot the damn name, but its meant to be a worldwide first for being the first school soley for game development. Its was advertised all over, I remember the ad from Hyper. Anyway if anyone knows what I am going on about, is it worth the \$6000? I was seriously looking at that last year, but had no finance. There hasn''t been any reviews that I know of about it....

I think its called quantm or something simular.

Thanks

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Just go into one of the big college in your town, go to their library, get some book on Linear Algebra and Calculus, read it there, as you probably can''t loan them. If the class size is big, you can even attend some of the lectures.

I don''t suggest you getting year 10/11/12 maths book and start from there, those are far too slow for learning anything. All those stuff is covered again in more detail in those college books anyway.

And trust me concepts in Linear Algebra and Calculus are very straight forward.

If you want to do a course in College, go with Computer Science and Mathematics, if that''s what you want to do.

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QANTM

I don''t know what I think about them though. I think if I remember rightly, they have links with Auran, I think Auran only accept people who have gone through QANTM.

quote:

I don''t suggest you getting year 10/11/12 maths book and start from there, those are far too slow for learning anything

I don''t mean take 3 years to catch up. You could probably understand an entire year''s course in a day using one of those. It is the exercises which those books give which takes time, and if you understand the stuff, you don''t really need to do the exercises, as long as you know how to apply stuff.

Trying is the first step towards failure.

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Brisbane the capital of IT in Australia? that''s what Peter Beattie would like you to think.

anyway, there is a specialist "game college" in Canberra but I forget the name. not sure if you''ll get in without university qualifications.

dude, go back to school. it''s the only way to get into a good university. without yr 10 maths, you can''t even get into the army. some people say that computer science IS basically maths.

you could teach yourself if you''re dedicated enough but you have to be able to prove yourself (ie in an exam or show some 3d games that you have made). talk to a counsellor