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mavric

OpenGL
Triple Buffering In OpenGL?

22 posts in this topic

Hi Could someone please tell me how to do triple buffering in OpenGL? Thanks
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The driver controls that. I don''t think there''s a way to affect that through your application''s code. I don''t know how the driver makes such a determination though...

------------
- outRider -
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No, you should be able to do triple buffering, but why on earth would you want to? There''s no need for any more than double buffering...

--Buzzy
(formerly buzzy_b)
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Triple buffering allows you to keep drawing while the first image is being displayed and the second waits for its turn. Rather than remain idle waiting for the buffer swap to occur you use the extra time to draw an additional frame.
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Thank you AP, but I know what triple buffering is .

[Edit] I said something stupid, imo. Ignore this...

--Buzzy
(formerly buzzy_b)

[edited by - Buzzy on July 10, 2002 1:14:41 AM]
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quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
Triple buffering allows you to keep drawing while the first image is being displayed and the second waits for its turn. Rather than remain idle waiting for the buffer swap to occur you use the extra time to draw an additional frame.



I disagree. Double-buffering is more than enough for smooth
animation. Why would you want to "idle"? Right, you wouldn''t.
You''d use all the CPU power that you get.

If it took 5 ms to render the last screen, great, start
working on the next screen by rendering to the back buffer
and swap. No "idle" there. We''re talking 200 fps.

Maybe you''re thinking "wait for vertical sync" but that''s
just silly. Surely, you''ve already turned *OFF* vertical sync?

Kami no Itte ga ore ni zettai naru!
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also, triple buffering means you have a 3rd chunk of vid. ram being taken up for screen display, bit of a waste when double buffering is enuff.
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All Mavric ask is how to do triple buffering in OpenGL not for opinions whether to use it or not. I''m sure he has his reasons. It might be good pratice for the future...

Any, I don''t have the answer and would like to find out. You can do it easily in Directx so I don''t think its a driver issue but what do I know?
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If I''m not mistaken, you can enable triple buffering in the "video card driver settings" of Windows of some video cards (I''m not going to boot Windows to check, feel free to do so yourself ). I don''t know how (or if) you can from your code though, as I''ve never wanted to.

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quote:
Original post by AndyTang
All Mavric ask is how to do triple buffering in OpenGL not for opinions whether to use it or not. I''m sure he has his reasons. It might be good pratice for the future...



If a person is standing at the edge of a high cliff and
ask "How do I do a backflip?", do you simply tell him to
raise his hands and jump backwards, or do you tell him to
step forward and walk away from the cliff?

Something to think about...


~~~~
Kami no Itte ga ore ni zettai naru!
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if i were the person standing at the cliff, wanting to do the backflip (maybe it''s the thing i''ve always been dreaming about...), i would rather hear the answer on my question, than something like "good advice" not to do it .

so i think, i would appreciate having my question answered & not being told what anyone else thinks about it...

[i also HATE being told what someone else thinks about what i want to do, when the only thing i wanted was an answer on my question...

one example (little bit off-topic ) :
i wanted to exchange the red LED in my optical mouse with a blue LED. so i mailed to my optical mouse''s manufacturer, how i can open the mouse (didn''t see any screws) and if the sensor would work correctly on blue light, too...
ALL I WANTED WAS AN ANSWER TO WHAT I ASKED !
the answer i got was :
"if you open your mouse, you''ll void your guarantee !"
WAS THAT THE ANSWER TO MY QUESTION ?! don''t think so...
boy... this day i wanted to CRUSH THIS MAN''S HEAD !!!
how i hate this !
]

just something to think about...
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Triple-buffering is useful when certain isolated frames may take considerably longer to draw than most others. For instance, when a block of new textures is loaded in. Basically, you have an extra frame of safety, which can be drawn to maintain the framerate even when your renderer takes twice as long to draw the new frame.

Max Payne makes good use of triple buffering; it makes gameplay a lot smoother, especially on cards that aren't bleeding-edge. (Or, rather, weren't when it came out).

Triple buffering also makes v-sync blocking make much more sense. If you can guarantee an exact framerate for 99.9999% of frames, you won't get the problems that newbie game developers so often complain about that are caused by v-sync remaining on.

For instance, let's suppose you have a refresh rate of 72 Hz. Most of your frames take 1/80 of a second to draw. Double buffering is fine, even when vsync is enabled.

Now let's suppose that one frame takes 1/60 of a second. Uh oh... the buffer isn't ready for the v-sync, so there's an entire 72nd of a frame where action freezes. It doesn't matter that the engine could catch up later; you've already got a problem.

With triple buffering, however, you'd smoothly suck up that extra pre-rendered frame. By then, you'd have a new frame to show. You'd spend a few seconds catching up to your third buffer, but you'd get the advantages of v-sync without the disadvantages.

[edited by - sneftel on July 8, 2002 5:01:29 PM]
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quote:
Original post by Buzzy
Thank you AP, but I know what triple buffering is . But with modern cards, its not needed. Right now, the major bottleneck is fillrate. What that means is that the video card is taking more time to draw the current frame than its taking the program to get the next frame read. Triple buffering would just mean that you''d have 2 frames waiting to be drawn, instead of just the one.


I don''t see how a fill-rate bottleneck makes triple buffering irrelevant. Assume vsync is enabled and the front buffer is locked during display. If the refresh rate is 1/60 and the card/engine combo draws at a constant rate of one frame every 1 + 1/60 seconds, double buffering will give you a frame rate of 1/30 while triple buffering will give you a frame rate of nearly 1/60. That''s because with triple buffering the card doesn''t sit idle while waiting for the vertical retrace, so it has time to draw some extra pixels for slack.
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Ooops! Instead of one frame every 1 + 1/60 seconds, make that one frame every 1/60 + 1/A seconds, where A is some constant larger than 60. The extra time is to account for rendering that takes multiple passes for each frame.
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that would suck if you could only get 60 fps.
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that would suck if you could only get 60 fps.
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haha, thanx everyone for answering anyway...

back to the topic, does anyone know how to do triple buffering or is it impossible to do in the current version of opengl?
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I know DOUBLE_BUFFERING can be specified, no mention of triple buffering in the manual but I have the old documention version 1.1 from the MSDN library.

Maybe for the newer version of Opengl - 1.2/1.3?
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how is it turned on in DX?
if its a function call then i assume it would have to be an OGL extension to enable it
if its a pixel format flag then check for that pixel format and request it.
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Triple buffering, like double buffering, is not handled by OpenGL itself but by commands specific to your platform of choice. Perhaps if you state your platform people might be able to answer.
quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
that would suck if you could only get 60 fps.

That was just an example, assuming the refresh rate was 60 Hz and the drawing time slightly higher than 1/60. It might as well be 85 Hz and a drawing time slighly higher than 1/85.

Why would anyone want a framerate that''s higher than the refresh rate, other than to determine potential performance? Once you''ve opened a window you''ll never see more frames than the corresponding refresh rate.
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I''m not too clear but I think with Directx, you define another backbuffer into the flipping chain to induce a tripple buffering system.
It can even go higher (I have no idea why) by defining more backbuffer into the chain where it then flips to each buffer everytime.

I just realised that Hardware TnL is automatically supported by Opengl which means you cant enable to disable it like with Directx - maybe something similar with Opengl?

I assume its a windows platform. Say WinXp?
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I had a quick google and only managed to find the following :

http://www.opengl.org/developers/about/arb/notes/meeting_note_2001-03-13.html

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