"And you probably never will. That''s something they teach at a trade school for people who want to work with computers, but aren''t smart enough to learn actual programming"

I feel insulted by that. I went to trade school to work with computers, but it was called COMPUTER SYSTEMS. Very different from COMPUTER PROGRAMMING, which was another degree they had. And going to a trade school to learn Computer Systems does not mean that you aren''t smart enough to go to a university to learn Computer Science. If that is the case, Gee, I wonder why am I at the University of Pittsburgh right now working on my CS Degree. Hmmm, I guess this 3.0 doesn''t mean jack, since I''m obviously not smart enough to learn programming.

And they teach an equivalent of "partition hard drive, rebuild computer" stuff here at the university. It''s called Information Science.

don''t assume only "stupid" people go to trade schools, cuz you know what happens when you assume? Yep, you make an ASS out of U and ME.

Thanks for all the comments everyone. What it boils down to is I have to take the two intro to comp sci classes, a hardware class, and two upper division comp sci classes to be eligible for the Masters program. (Calc I-III is also required but I already have those....) I was lucky my gpa from my first time around was just over a 3.0 because thats also the cut off. So I''m looking at 3 years to a masters and 2.5 to a bs.

Looks like about 15 for the masters and 2 against. I don''t have to make a decision anytime soon but, really, thanks for all the input.

BTW - I thought khawkins was AWOL around here; good to hear from him again! (and i''ll definitly look into software engineering when I get to that point....)

mtaber.

other than the expression of feeling insulted, I was also commenting on the fact that you imply that A) they don''t teach programming at trade schools, which is false. and B) that they don''t teach computer systems at universities. Both of these statements are false.

As far as my grades, I brought that up to show you that there are many reasons to go to a trade school. Usually they are cheaper and take less time to finish, etc. I don''t want anyone to assume that I''m puffing up my chest and strutting around. Basically, it was just to show that intelligence does not have anything to do with choice of school. That is a common misconception.

I bet there are people who get better grades than I do, and still don''t know what they are doing. And vice versa. There are other factors in grades as well. As for me, I don''t really care. I''m pretty sure that most of those people who do get better grades than I do don''t work 55 hours a week.

So yes, I do agree with you that grades aren''t an example of intelligence. Or even knowledge of the material. It depends on the particular school. Some schools just pass people through, and some make their students work for their grades. But there''s no blanket response for every school out there.

unfortunately, unless it''s a big name school like CMU or MIT, most people give it a blanket response.

As far as the big picture, I don''t quite see it.


And nonnus29, if you can get a better degree for less money (time = money), then I say do it by all means.

PhD = Piled Higher and Deeper

=)

In my experience, PhDs aren''t very useful in the work world except in very specialized jobs. If you''re planning to be just a programmer, the extra 3 years spent doing a PhD is probably better spent getting real world experience. The things that they teach you in University and the things you need to know for a job are diverging more and more, I''ve noticed. Universities seem bent on teaching abstract stuff, where a more applied approach would help in the work world. Right around PhD level they really start to diverge. You''re learning stuff just for the sake of learning, and you''ll probably never see any real life applications for it, unless you''re targetting a job field that requires PhDs (like a research position or academic position), then by all means go for the PhD

Most of the time, people are looking for PhDs who did their 3 years of research in a particular sub-area, and its really hard to find a position that matched your research interests. When you realize you can''t get a job in your research area, you start looking for an ordinary job and realize that no one wants to pay the extra $$$ for a PhD, especially one without experience. So doing a PhD is kind of risky.

Thats my 2 cents about PhDs.

Here''s what I know.

People with master''s degrees make the most money on average. This is probably due to mostly the business people all having masters degrees and making millions for big companies.

Next come people with PhD''s. These people are mostly professors or doctors. Doctors (medical) make probably over $100,000 a year. Professors might make anywhere from a decent $40,000 on up to maybe $100,000 depending on the position, the school, their accomplishments, and so on.

Then come the people with bachelors degrees, then the people with associates degrees, then people with some college but no degree, then people with only a high school diploma, then people with no high school diploma, and on and on.

Basically, the more education you have, the more money you will make. The statistics show that this isn''t true, but that''s mostly due to a decision on the part of PhD''s to go into fields that pay less, probably because they want to do something they enjoy rather than do something that will make them tons of money. I think if you have a person with a masters degree and a PhD in the same field, they could do the job equally well, so it''s more a matter of people with PhD''s choosing what they love over money.

There are always exceptions of course, Bill Gates being the prime example. Statistics can always be manipulated of course. For example, did you know that people who graduate from the University of North Caronlina with a degree in geography make more on average than any other major at UNC? That''s because there are relatively few geography majors, and Michael Jordan happened to be one of them How''s that for statistical deceit?

While I''m at it, people that eat Froot Loops live longer than people that eat oat meal. That''s because kids eat Froot Loops and old people eat oat meal (usually).

Russell

quote:Original post by Z01
In my experience, PhDs aren''t very useful in the work world except in very specialized jobs.

Having a PhD is the way to go if you want a research job (like at Intel MRL, IBM, MS, Sun, HP, etc.)

If you want to get into processor engineering, it would probably be helpful to have a PhD under your belt as well.