quote:Original post by adventuredesign
The game is definitely about gameplay, but we should consider that story and gameplay may not be so distinctly separate units,

...

yet there were distinct interstitial linear narrative exposition points in these games (either by cut scene or text or some other method of exposition like a mission briefing or NPC dialogue) that contributed to reinforcing player motivation by maintaining contextual causal flow, or to introduce new cause for the player to desire or care to continue play.

Good points. Regarding motivation, however, I actually think that this becomes merely a matter of preference. Causal flow can be maintained by a good player understanding of game rules and well defined victory conditions. When the goals tap into some natural human desire (power, control, recognition) and the game rules make the path to this challenging but apparent, the player is motivated to keep playing I think in ways that story alone can not match.

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In the future of games, just as in other entertainment mediums, the audience wants more. In some current games, relegating the player to creating their own quests or missions is fine for now, but players will eventually run out of ideas worth persuing as their personal story creating skills become taxed.

This I don''t agree with. As the toolset expands, I think player creativity will expand with it.

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If the players were such great storytellers, they would be making a living writing stories.

Not necessarily. A perfect comparison would be the legions who make it their hobby to create worlds, plots, and characters for tabletop role playing games. By and large, these people don''t write. They tell stories in a medium they find more rewarding and less difficult than lone writing itself.

Players who are self-actualized while playing (e.g., persue their own goals and are comfortable with unstructured play) may be the same. They likely find the solo process of writing unrewarding, and enjoy having an established environment that allows them to make a direct impact.

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In the future, in the quest for the holy grail of the legendary mass market game, in order to hook massive numbers of audiences into the game, you are going to have to plant the hook to land that fish somehow, and traditionally for wise reasons, that hook has always been a dramatic one.

You might be right, but my money''s on a more reactive environment not necessarily devoid of story, but where story is peripheral to reactions that the player can provoke in the game world. The reason I think this is because humans are meaning making machines. We will draw logical and emotional connections where none exist, as long as the pattern we are considering is diverse enough. I think that enough detailed reactive elements form a pattern which by itself satisfies our inate need for meaning (which stories often supply).

The SIMS seem to be an example of what I''m talking about.

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Is somebody going to pay me for this?

Nope. Welcome to Game Design, where as in all art you''re only appreciated after you''re dead. (LOL, just kidding... )



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Just waiting for the mothership...

quote:Original post by Anonymous Poster
Half-Life is already (and STILL!) considered one of the greatest games of all time.

I bet that has more to do with the environment, the incredibly reactive Special Forces AI, the unique monsters, and the spontaneous and sometimes startling events that happened as you play. Half-Life''s story could have been written on the back of a cereal box: "Aliens invade a military base. A lone hero in a powered suit is the only hope, but he finds that even his government opposes him. He fights through level after level, discovers that his government triggered the invasion, but nevertheless kills the leader of the invasion."

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Games, to me, are about setting. I mean, I might have fun running down pointless corridors and shooting at aliens for a little while, but whats going to keep me going to the end? For me, its a desire to see what happens next.

I understand this, but keep in mind there are many ways for people to anticipate ''what comes next.'' Level and empire building games, scavenger hunt games, and games which substantially vary game rules and force / inspire a change in play style can also do this.

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I''m sure its a matter of personal taste. After all, some people really do prefer the gameplay of Doom, Serious Sam, and Quake 3 over Deus Ex, Thief, and No One Lives Forever.

Agreed. I think that if game stories weren''t so puerile I''d enjoy them more. But I personally can''t play a game which emphasizes what often turns out to be an unsatisfying, juvenile story but vastly limits gameplay. (Hate to say it, but NOLF so seemed to be turning into this that I didn''t even finish; I thought the sniper gameplay, for instance, was just abominable)

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There''s also the argument that audiences want more. And boy is that ever the truth -- the videos games industry is expanding, and I GUARANTEE you its not because more folks are suddenly finding they have an interest in blowing up aliens. Its because they are finding games like Gabriel Knight III and No One Lives Forever and Thief and Baldur''s Gate

Sure about this? Both the excellent Thief and System Shock were so successful that Looking Glass went out of business (not a direct correlation, but still...). Last I heard, most of the hardcore expansion was related to shooting aliens, terrorists, and all the high end hardware needed to handle it.

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Frankly, I have to say that I get "p****d off" when people like you start whining that gameplay should scrap the story. Its people like you that are hurting my favorite hobby''s recognition as an art-quality medium for story-telling as good as film and even novels, if not better in many ways. People are always going to make your mindless shoot-em-up games with no plot and no motivation, so quit hurting the rest of us by whining that some of us want something a little more substantial.

Unfortunately, I can offer similar criticism about story addled designers who force us to sit through their cutscenes, spend more effort on CG than on game rules, and fail to grasp the essential concept of choice. As to capital A Art acknowledgement, I''d rather the planet freeze over than have academics and aesthetes invade a realm that''s supposed to be fun, and drag along with them the tons of tedious and pointless baggage, debate, and analysis that seems to come with their trade. I was estatic to see Hollywood utterly fail to create "Siliwood," and warmed my hands at the bonfire of junked FMV games.

A game without a story doesn''t have to be mindless, and a game with one isn''t necessary "mindful."

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Just waiting for the mothership...