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Mr Master

Is DOS dead?

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I definitely agree with masterboy. DOS is a hellava lot cooler, and faster. It''s got freedom, man. In windows, for every method you code, you have to check if some other ding-dang program is covering your face. Sure, windows has a lot of standardization(everything''s M$ , but anyone can write a similar kind of lib for DOS. The main reason most people get pissed off with DOS is it''s lack of a GUI. Any reasonably talented programmer can make one, and one to suit the application, with all kinds of new and cool controls, titlebars below, minimize boxes to the left... And don''t say that windows is standardized. I''m sure a user wouldn''t mind this ''de-standarditarion'' if it helps him use that particular App.

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I have an even better idea:

Lets drop it all: Windows, DOS, Unix and its variants and lets all start coding fo BeOS!

Thats right! I like BeOS and Im proud of it!

sweet, sweet BeOS *drool*

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beos is free now btw =)

DOS isn''t dead, but it''s doomed. MS is looking to NT kernel for the mainstream after the next win9x release (Win Millenium i think).

Got info from GDC2k. MS also strongly recommended testing your code on win2k.

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DOS is good for learning really simple game programming stuff, but since DOS is not very likely to be hanging around for much longer, it''s not worth learning to use drivers to access hardware IMHO, instead get used to API''s and such like (I''m in the process of doing this now). I think Windows (95) is OK, but it isn''t very efficent for writing games, and not too stable, I don''t know if Win2K is any better.

It would be good if you could instruct Windows to temporarily unload everything you don''t need (so it''s basically DOS with API''s for using hardware etc)

What d''ya reckon?

George.

"Who says computer games affect kids, imagine if PacMan affected us as kids, we'd all sit around in a darkened room munching pills and listening to repetitive music....uh oh!"

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quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster

Atually, Windows 9x is a new operating system, with backwards compatibility for DOS. It rewrites the old DOS files completely,



Hardly If it was a new operating system, it wouldn''t need autoexec.bat, msdos.sys, etc etc. It is a reimplementation of an old operating system.

quote:

and uses 32-bit code instead of 16-bit.



You''ve never looked at all the processes that Win95 runs, have you?

Much of the base code is still 16-bit.

quote:

In fact, there is almost zero DOS code left in Windows NT and Windows 2000.



This much is true.

quote:

Windows 3.x are drivers on top of DOS. Windows 95 and above are a complete new operating system.



I feel you''ve been misled by MS propaganda. The 9x range are heavily DOS-based and contain significant amounts of 16-bit code. Just because it modifies certain system files to look different to DOS, doesn''t really qualify it as a ''complete new'' OS. More of a new environment.

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It looks to me that

1) Most Windows games don''t use the Windows UI
2) Even if you write a "DOS game" it will end up running under Windows, as PC are sold with Windows pre-installed
3) If the user like the game he will start it through a shortcut at the desktop, not typing commands in a DOS Box

So, to the user, it won''t matter if its a "DOS" or "Windows" game. This is a developer decision.

What is the difference betweem a "DOS" and a "Windows" game when you are running it under Windows? Since Windows/386 (that is, even before Windows 3.0), DOS programs run in a VM (Virtual Machine), so Windows is actually looking over your shoulder (and interfering) while you mess up with the hardware - so you will still get a performance hit (when compared to a "bare DOS" environment.

You should also remember that there are two main flavors of Windows Apps: the GUI and the Console. A Windows Console App is something similar to DOS, but runs in a "full" 32-bit enviroment (as full as Windows go, anyway).

In the end, I would say that the difference is in the tools and APIs available (or missing). To write a "big" game under bare DOS (for example, one that uses SVGA resolution) you will need a DOS-extender, video drivers, joystick drivers, sound board drivers, etc.

In the good old days video boards were pretty standard - a good VGA driver would cover all bases. Since the SVGA this has changed (VESA BIOS was a partial solution to that). Like it or not, hardware manufactors are building more and more "Windows hardware" - strange beasts that can only be used if you have a driver for the manufacturer (or get technical detail from them and write your own driver) - look at the infamous Windows Modems.

I realy like being able to use "char big_map [20][100][100]" whithout worrying that it is bigger than 64K, doing a BitBlt that will probably use hardware acceleration even if I dont''t have an idea how that is done with each specific board, playing a MID file through an strange sound board, etc. Hey, my software will probably even work with hardware released long after I released it!

I still use DOS box a lot, but a have no doubt: Windows is a better environment for writing games.

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DOS is not dead, it is actually still used here and there. One place where it will be used is in my own personal MP3/CD/DVD player that I''m building at the moment, but that''s not the point.

DirectX is actually faster in some aspects them pure DOS, the reson being that nowdays drivers for hardware is written specially for DirectX so it will be able to access it directly (long sentance, but you''ll get it!).

I personly enjoy the freedom DOS gives the user, however, DOS is not part of the future, window-controlled systems are. So if you''re aiming to the general public Windows 9x or 2K is the way to go.

/Mr K

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Okay I''ll post a little more serious this time
Quadros - you have a good point with your drivers, but it''s worse than you think.

For Graphics Hardware ( and lets face it, that''s the only thing that interests most of us ), usually you can''t even GET the technical details that will allow you to write your own drivers, you have to rely on the manufacturer''s drivers that are unfortunately usually windows only.

So you CAN''T EVEN USE those things in dos

~ Mad Keith ~
**SoftwareMode**

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