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Teamshibi

Cel Shaded anime based game - WHY HASNT ANYONE THOUGHT OF THIS?!

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I was playing with cel shading today and realized something. There are no cel shaded anime based games. Imagine a mech battle game for the GC (most powerful of the consoles) allowing full on anime physics reminiscent of Zone of the Enders with a story like the Gundam wing seris (main character has some serious views that get flipped around in war, nearly driving the player insane - Wait, his best friend goes insane and you have to face him because he starts fighting they who you were sent to fight for. You have to kill your own best friend in cold blood and proceed to get your revenge by killing the leader of the forces your attackings'' leader in an extreme mech battle. I think the physics of Zone of the Enders would work for this game simply because its the only game that did it right. Your huge robotic mech suit would move extremely fast, fly, fire weapons without decreasing speed, etc. As I said it would be cel shaded to give that anime feel. I am trying to do some conceptual art before I start writing a story but I want some pointers, ideas, anything! I seriously plan on making this game (by all means necisary I will try as hard as possible, if I cant do it I know I can prolly sell it to a major game company if I can develop it enough) and you can help! Feedback? Ideas? teamshibi@hotmail.com or feel free to post here.

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There''s flying and land fighting, you could make a Gundam game with the same gameplay and different mechs. I''m just saying someone has thought of your "great original idea" and it''s being released as a commercial title. Also, how do you know it''s going to have "less than acceptable gameplay," have you played it?

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heh, I know simply through learning everything I can about it. The game will be using a jet for increased speed and manuverability that transforms. I don''t know about you but in my oppinion you should be able to go as fast as a jet in your orbital frame, mech, etc. along with having unchalenged manuverability. A story appearntly will be nearly nonexistant in it and personally I know I''d prefer a deep story to a crapy transformer. Just my observations. Take them as you like.

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well using gundam as a start means you CANT sell it simply because you dont own it unless you change the story enough or are making a parody.

using cell shading for anime style graphics? where have you been man? while jet set radio may not be what you call anime it fits the bill. this was released a while ago. quake3 has a cell shaded anime style model availible for download.

the new zelda game is using cell shaded anime/manga style graphics (even though again not your typical style ppl are used to calling anime/manga).

bomberman uses cell shading with anime style art.

many ppl have thought of this. why do you think some ppl refer to it as toon randering/cell shading? its because the shading is done like a cartoonist would shade a cell.

the new robotech game may or may not be good. however from early impressions of ppl who actually PLAYED the game it seems like it will be quite good. maybe not the deep story of what you want, but great action shooting which is fun.

there is a anime style mech game for the pc which is cell shaded and just had a demo. tsunami 2250 or something.

cell shading is becoming popular because previous companies willing to take the risk made money. also with more powerful hardware its easier to accomplish the effect on a wide variety of scene complexities (ie mulitple colored lights, higher poly counts, more textures, etc).

also firing weapons with decreasing speed is unrealistic (he whole conservation of energy, and every action has an equal and opisite reaction), however it dont mean its not fun.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
First off, I fully realise that I couldnt do a gundam game. I know many are using Cel Shading in newer games. Here is my views of it. We have 1 action game with a jet-mech and no story. We have zelda, sweet by all means but the anime resemblance stops at his eyes (if you consider even them anime-like) bomberman, you must be joking; What I am thinking about is an action RPG. Something with a deep story BUT also giving some action fun as well. A full on anime-like mech battle game with a story is something I have not seen and I am saying that there needs to be one. Maybe the creators of Zone of the Enders will see this (lol, that''ll happen) and make something similar. BTW it wont happen but I take no credit for this idea... simply cuz I dun wanna stop someone else from trying it.

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To defend the Robotech game, it''s a Veritech. Flying around in a Veritech, blowing the hell out of Zentraedi Battle Pods, and switching modes at will is enough for me.

And good luck on your idea.

You know you''re a programmer when your computer is like family. When it''s more like a lover, you need help.

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In an attack upon your precious Robotech : Battlecry, mechs should have all the power that they wouldnt need to transform =P What would you prefer? A full on badass mech that could do tons of damage without having to turn into something its not, or a weak mech that cant hit a close range target (gamespot says that dogfights are handled by jets for gods'' sake) and is slower then a simple fighter jet?

Its like a truthful genious or a lying idiot. Maybe I just don''t want to accept my idea has already been thought of but I am really not liking what i see from ti.

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You obviously haven''t seen Robotech or Macross. Also, Gundam has transforming mecha also, so I don''t see why you''re knocking the transformation idea yet praising Gundam. Valkyries (or Veritechs) are a cool Mecha design, no matter what you compare them with. Macross (which is the anime the first series of Robotech is based on, and therefore the game Robotech: Battlecry) is a classic Mecha series, I would say it''s up there with Gundam (of course, nothing is exactly at Gundam''s level, because Gundam started the whole trend, but...)

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I know of a cel-shaded anime-based game, that also happens to be made by independent developers. Just go to www.codefortress.com ... and get Cowboy Bebop: Happiness is a Warm Gun... Its to bad that I can''t play it though, because I keep getting some stupid Windows Media error thing..... but that could be because my computer is full of crap and is "crapped up" if you will....aaaa... well that''s enough ranting about my computer...

--------------------------
Yasul (rahulz)

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bomberman was designed in japan and has japanese style art. you may have a simple stereo typical view of what consistutes anime/manga style, but it dont change facts.

anywho. using a different art style dont change game ocntent. currently technology allows such exploration with lighting effects 9ie cel shading) whcih were two gpu/cpu intensive for anything but a simple scene.

tons of 2d games use cell shading. of course in your haste you forget this.

please keep in mind a good action rpg about mechs is vauge at best. you basically are saying "take this old game i like and change the shading used".

what a full anime like mech game? try shogo: mad. good game, decent story, great action. while no flying sequences, they are not required since mechs can fight on the ground or you dont like that? try the battletech games. while not anime style, the mechs handle well and has a more realistic feel to the game since its more sim the action fest. though it dont mean the gameplay is slow.

anyone can say they want a good game. anyone can vaugly describe what they want in that game. its actually creating such a game with enough mass appeal that it will sell.

also, there is nothing anyone could steal from you. your idea is not unique at all. you are using someone elses story to begin with. in fact your idea ha been thought up or dreamed by many. why not be different and actually do something to make the dream a reality.

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There are other ways of doing cel/toon shading than using pixel shaders.

The cheapest alternate way that I know of is to flat-shade your model, and create a shell around the model (flat black texture), but slightly larger and invert the normals so that each face is pointing in.

The transforms are more expensive, and it requires extra art resources, but you''ll run on systems without pixel shaders.

Regardless, there are plenty of different styles of anime/manga. Compare "My Neighbor Totoro" to "Neon Genesis Evangelion" to "Love Hina" to "Tenchi Muyo!" to "Photon: The Idiot Adventures" to "Sakura Diaries" to "Akira" to "Excel Saga" (which usually changes styles 20-30 times an episode)...etc. Each one has its own style, and there is no mistaking they are distinct entities. Even "Tenchi" and "Photon," which are from the same lead character designer, have distinct artistic personalities.

Different manga artists have distinctive styles. Amazingly enough, the hardest thing to get right in anime is the eyes. "Shogo: Mobile Armor Division" didn''t get them right on the models (usually too large and too far to the sides of the heads), but got them right on the inlay graphics. "Oni" almost got them right, but they ended up too boxy. If there was only a standard for anime eyes...perhaps they''d be more pervasive. Eyes from Studio Ghibli look entirely different from eyes coming out of Gainax or AIC.

Ah, well...I guess I''m just an anime freak.

Besides, I think what you''re looking for is a 3D cartoon character in a painted world. If you want that, check out "Dragon''s Lair 3D." True, the animation is modeled Bluth, but everything is being designed to make you feel like you are in the old LaserDisc title.

RomSteady - Able to leap off tall buildings in a single bound

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Guest Anonymous Poster
There are some games based on anime stories already out, forgot the names though. I''m looking forward to Robotech: Battlecry and Gun Grave.

Where can I get Cowboy Bebop: Happiness is a Warm Gun...?
Is it just me, or was Jet''s old girlfriend(forgot her name) the best looking woman on the entire series?

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Guest Anonymous Poster
quote:
Original post by Teamshibi
Imagine a mech battle game for the GC (most powerful of the consoles)


Just for the record I believe that the GC is not the most powerful console, but the XBOX is.



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in reality it dont matter which is faster. marketing hype clouds the issue. i mean everyone thinks ps2 is more powerful then dreamcast yet when factor in reality it turns out ps2 is equal or less then dreamcast in graphics abilities (depends on certain factors, ps2 can rip dreamcast apart in the fillrate arena, though in most cases they are similar or dremacast will have crisper graphics due to more vram/hardware compressed texyure support ps2 dont have). i wont go into details since that is far off topic (well i slightly have, oops).

in any case its the actual games that matter and what the coders can do with the hardware they have. the numbers console makers give ou are ussually skewed (except by sega who actually gave lower numbers to ensure they were not busted for over hyping their system like sony did. ps2 does 60 million polygons. ahhahahahah, read the fine print which would mention this is with all features off (texture, lighting, shading, etc), and only a single trinagle (ie ignores bus bandwidth limitations due to low vram) is transformed and filled. ps2 got a great fillrate, but the actual design is a bit crappy. dreamcast and ps2 do approx 3-6 million polys per second in realworld games).

if the game is good, that makes the system good. not some silly number made up by a company trying to make money. i was gonna leave this silly remark alone, but i see someone called the xbox the most powerful. it may be true, though i have yet to see a game that can be compared on both systems. most of gamecubes titles dont have realistic graphics while most xbox titles do. so its difficult to compare. graphics only do so much, but then again i started playing games back on the c64 and nes. so i dont see graphics as a main selling point as most gamers today do.

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quote:
Original post by Teamshibi
Yes I have seen it. The problem is that not only is it going to have less then acceptible gameplay, but you fly a jet more then an anime mech.


Okay I'm seriously offended by this. As a pretty average sized Macross fan this quote has seriously deprived you of some kudos points...

This generic jet you describe is much more. It transforms into a battleoid (mech) and a mix of the two. You switch forms to best suit the suitation not to mention the transforming thing is just cool in it's on right.

Less than acceptible gameplay, pfft! Where did you get that, you work on the testing staff or something? From what I see the game looks like it's gonna be one of my favorite air/space combat games of all time, besides the fact that it is Robotech/Macross (the name is a big plus ).

EDIT: I'm sorry I only read TeamShibi's inital post and the first reply. He supported himself so it took that out but due to his almost blasphemus responses I'm going to start a move in the anime club to protest his very existance.

Macross has lots of story to it. and the whole thing about mechs should have all the power they need. I don't see where the fun is in having a bunch of rapid firing high damage weapons, supersonic speed, and litterally the power to blow everything to kingdom come a fun game. What your talking about is a game without physics even though you say the game should have them. The Veritech makes for a great machine, while a techical impossibility of today it makes sense. Jet mode you have the most fire power and speed but mech mode you can have more manuverability, easy stopping and pivoting, also better accuary through the use of a moveable gun. the Gerwalk mode or guardian mode gives you mix of the two.

I highly dislike the way you just bash games like thier trash and say you want to promote a new idea when half of it in my opinion sounds like something you put together after smoking a joint and watching anime tapes and a cel-shaded game side by side (sorry for the insult but I couldn't resist). I would suggest a more positive additude at least on these forums if you really want to get into the field of game development.

Thank you for reading, that is all.
(Very high off lack of sleep and boredom right now excuse anything you wish that I post)

Bleu Shift - www.bleushift.tk

[edited by - PSWind on August 24, 2002 4:13:59 AM]

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I think all the discussion going on proves why there aren''t too many anime-based games. To put it bluntly, anime fans go from the slighty nuts that buy $30 DVD/tapes with two eposides on them to the hardcore that imports the stuff from Japan complete with soundtracks, action figures, and other memorabilia. This is your target market, and these are people that are going to nitpick your game to death. So not only do you have the diffuculties of trying to translate a movie/TV series into an interesting game, but you also have to be so incredibly detail driven that you''re wasting lots of money to try to satisfy a crowd that''ll boo you off the stage for getting a color wrong somewhere.

Disclaimer: I''m one of the nutty ones that has bought entire seasons of anime on tape, so I''m somewhere in the middle : )

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I think the you can make an Anime game inspired by macroos/gundam/robotech/Pat Labor/whatever.

As long as you remember why you loved those series, and how to translate this in an actual game.

ONI, though not in cell shading, was an acceptable attempt to make an Anime type game.
The story was interesting, the gameplay was ok, and the technology was a bit too old.

SHOGO mobile armor division is a good example of a anime inspired game which was rather fun. (not in cell shading either)

However, making a game based on a franchise might be a good reason as to why use cell shading.

I don''t thing cell-shading is a simple other mode of rendering, I think it should give something more than simply see the things differently.

Looney Toons Space Race on the Dreamcast is using cell shading and it suits it perfectly.
The next Zelda on GameCube will use cell-shading and this affects its gameplay.



-* So many things to do, so little time to spend. *-

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