The Mouse as a game controller
Author
Yeah, making the player walk in the direction the mouse is pointing makes it better. I think path-finding makes rpgs too easy. Like in Bladur''s Gate or Darksstone: If there''s somewhere I don''t know how to get to, I just have to click it instead of exploring and the computer finds the way.
I personally like the feeling of top-down type games, like diablo 2, where you click and the character(s) move to that position. It gives you a great feeling of command and control, and it''s so much easier to react to any given situation.
However 90% of First Person Shooter players play with Mouse + Keyboard (either arrow keys or WASD).
Really it doesn''t matter what control config YOU like, it matters what control config your PLAYERS like.
However 90% of First Person Shooter players play with Mouse + Keyboard (either arrow keys or WASD).
Really it doesn''t matter what control config YOU like, it matters what control config your PLAYERS like.
I think you should always first try to imagine just exactly what actions you need the controls to be able to handle.
As Warsong02 mentioned, each control device has its own pros and cons. The pro of the mouse is quick movement. The pro of an analog control pad is accurate movement. The pro of the mouse is that it only requires one hand (leaving one hand available for the keyboard).
The con of the mouse is that it only has a limited number of buttons (2-4, plus optional scroll button). The con of the control pad is that it has a set number of buttons (which can be combined to some degree). The con of the control pad is that it requires two hands (good luck trying to type messages while playing).
The keyboard has pros and cons as well, as do all other controllers.
Find out what exactly you need, and then go searching for the perfect input device. You might need to adjust your original game design in order to fit it with your final choice of controller.
My personal favorite has always been the mouse/keyboard choice, but I am more and more starting to like the analog control pad (especially with dual-joystick). The design I''m currently working on seems to be perfectly suited for the control pad. But the control pad is limited to a certain number of control inputs. If my design requires more, I will either have to switch to a different control device (keyboard, with its many buttons, is still probably the best control device if you want to have many, many different control inputs) or I will have to give up some of the desired control inputs ("Darn, I don''t have any buttons available for weapon 5... Scratch weapon 5!").
As Warsong02 mentioned, each control device has its own pros and cons. The pro of the mouse is quick movement. The pro of an analog control pad is accurate movement. The pro of the mouse is that it only requires one hand (leaving one hand available for the keyboard).
The con of the mouse is that it only has a limited number of buttons (2-4, plus optional scroll button). The con of the control pad is that it has a set number of buttons (which can be combined to some degree). The con of the control pad is that it requires two hands (good luck trying to type messages while playing).
The keyboard has pros and cons as well, as do all other controllers.
Find out what exactly you need, and then go searching for the perfect input device. You might need to adjust your original game design in order to fit it with your final choice of controller.
My personal favorite has always been the mouse/keyboard choice, but I am more and more starting to like the analog control pad (especially with dual-joystick). The design I''m currently working on seems to be perfectly suited for the control pad. But the control pad is limited to a certain number of control inputs. If my design requires more, I will either have to switch to a different control device (keyboard, with its many buttons, is still probably the best control device if you want to have many, many different control inputs) or I will have to give up some of the desired control inputs ("Darn, I don''t have any buttons available for weapon 5... Scratch weapon 5!").
With a mouse you generally specify locations, whereas with a gamepad you specify movement as a way to get to a location.
Is pressing on a gamepad different than using a mouse? Of course! Play Secret of Mana, then play Diablo. Or imagine playing a Final Fight type game with a mouse.
Mouse is good for a first person game, or a game like an RTS. (In an FPS you don't move just with the mouse though) Think about where the mouse came from, the OS need. And RTS is a lot like an OS, you have a lot of different things you want to click on, move around, etc.
However, for controlling a single character a mouse is usually terrible compared to a controller. A controller makes you do the work yourself. Choose your own path, dodge things, etc. For controlling one character it is generally much more interactive than "go here." Mouse is great for those types of commands but lousy for things like "dodge left, creep right one step, now run real quick!"
Edit: Dragging out a path or moving towards the mouse cursor is still not the same effect. Imagine playing Super Mario Brothers 3 by dragging out the path you want Mario to take.
In general IMO if you are controlling a single character and controlling that character is one of the major focuses of the game a pad is better. The Diablo games would be more fun if you actually controlled your character directly. (It might not be possible since you need the keyboard for hotkeys and need to manage inventory and such, but if you could make it work it would be better) Again compare say Zelda to Diablo, in Zelda you feel like you are the character rather than commanding one.
[edited by - AnonPoster on August 17, 2002 9:36:50 PM]
Is pressing on a gamepad different than using a mouse? Of course! Play Secret of Mana, then play Diablo. Or imagine playing a Final Fight type game with a mouse.
Mouse is good for a first person game, or a game like an RTS. (In an FPS you don't move just with the mouse though) Think about where the mouse came from, the OS need. And RTS is a lot like an OS, you have a lot of different things you want to click on, move around, etc.
However, for controlling a single character a mouse is usually terrible compared to a controller. A controller makes you do the work yourself. Choose your own path, dodge things, etc. For controlling one character it is generally much more interactive than "go here." Mouse is great for those types of commands but lousy for things like "dodge left, creep right one step, now run real quick!"
Edit: Dragging out a path or moving towards the mouse cursor is still not the same effect. Imagine playing Super Mario Brothers 3 by dragging out the path you want Mario to take.
In general IMO if you are controlling a single character and controlling that character is one of the major focuses of the game a pad is better. The Diablo games would be more fun if you actually controlled your character directly. (It might not be possible since you need the keyboard for hotkeys and need to manage inventory and such, but if you could make it work it would be better) Again compare say Zelda to Diablo, in Zelda you feel like you are the character rather than commanding one.
[edited by - AnonPoster on August 17, 2002 9:36:50 PM]
quote:Original post by Taiyou
Yeah, making the player walk in the direction the mouse is pointing makes it better. I think path-finding makes rpgs too easy. Like in Baldur''s Gate or Darksstone: If there''s somewhere I don''t know how to get to, I just have to click it instead of exploring and the computer finds the way.
Yeah. And in Baldur''s Gate, if there''s somewhere you do know how to get to, just click it and the computer will find the most dangerous and long-winded path to get there
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quote:Original post by AnonPoster
Is pressing on a gamepad different than using a mouse? Of course! Play Secret of Mana, then play Diablo. Or imagine playing a Final Fight type game with a mouse.
[...]
Edit: Dragging out a path or moving towards the mouse cursor is still not the same effect. Imagine playing Super Mario Brothers 3 by dragging out the path you want Mario to take.
For SMB3 and Final Fight, you''re right. Aren''t these both side-on games, though? It doesn''t have to be the way you describe. The standard control system in Ultima 7 worked in much the same way as a gamepad in that you steered the character in one of 8 directions.
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Author
Ok, I''m glad to hear that some people actually do like using a gamepad in some games.
I was also wondering, on a computer, is the keyboard an acceptable replacement for those who do not have a gamepad?
I was also wondering, on a computer, is the keyboard an acceptable replacement for those who do not have a gamepad?
For a game that was designed to use a gamepad, I find that the keyboard to be a terrible substitute. Tried playing some classic console ROMS on a keyboard? Can''t stand it. Won''t do it. Using a gamepad is the only way for me. Fighting games, action games, platformers... not many translate to keyboard very well.
CDV
CDV
It's really all a matter of personal preference as to what you find most comfortable. Personally I not a fan of gamepads, but then I don’t use them very often, partly because I don’t own a gamepad (or a game console for that matter). Other people have different views and that’s fine 
.
Going back into the mists of time, when I first played doom (original not long after it came out) I used solely the keyboard. As the FPS’s have become more complex I’ve used the combination of mouse/keyboard. The mouse gives me more finite control over targeting, plus it frees up more keys for me to utilise for the myriad of other actions performed by FPSs’. For example in AvP2 I confined the entire key options to the Keypad and the six extra keys (INSERT to PAGE DOWN) and used the mouse for targeting and turning.
Other examples –
Strategy games, thousands of options and checkboxes, mouse is better.
RTS, Many units spread over a wide field of battle. Mouse combined with Keyboard
Flight Sims, of course a combination of joystick and keyboard.
My point is that the number of options of actions that can be performed in an instant is relevant to the type of input you use. Therefore because games are becoming more complex and the number of actions you can use at one time is increasing I find that I use the keyboard now ALWAYS in combination with another input device. Therefore the mouse is just a secondary choice of input for me, its just a convenience, it’s the keyboard that’s the star.
[edit for bad english]
"Making it up! Why should I be making it up. Lifes bad enough as it is without wanting to invent more of it."
[edited by - Zarquon on August 20, 2002 4:20:10 AM]
.Going back into the mists of time, when I first played doom (original not long after it came out) I used solely the keyboard. As the FPS’s have become more complex I’ve used the combination of mouse/keyboard. The mouse gives me more finite control over targeting, plus it frees up more keys for me to utilise for the myriad of other actions performed by FPSs’. For example in AvP2 I confined the entire key options to the Keypad and the six extra keys (INSERT to PAGE DOWN) and used the mouse for targeting and turning.
Other examples –
Strategy games, thousands of options and checkboxes, mouse is better.
RTS, Many units spread over a wide field of battle. Mouse combined with Keyboard
Flight Sims, of course a combination of joystick and keyboard.
My point is that the number of options of actions that can be performed in an instant is relevant to the type of input you use. Therefore because games are becoming more complex and the number of actions you can use at one time is increasing I find that I use the keyboard now ALWAYS in combination with another input device. Therefore the mouse is just a secondary choice of input for me, its just a convenience, it’s the keyboard that’s the star.
[edit for bad english]
"Making it up! Why should I be making it up. Lifes bad enough as it is without wanting to invent more of it."
[edited by - Zarquon on August 20, 2002 4:20:10 AM]
I don''t have much to add to this discussion except to make a small advert for my asteroids game in my signature
Take a look at it if you want an example of a game where you control with the mouse without being "inpersonal".
My Stuff : [ Whispers in Akarra (online rpg) || L33T WAR (multiplayer game) || The Asteroid Menace (another game) ]
Take a look at it if you want an example of a game where you control with the mouse without being "inpersonal".
My Stuff : [ Whispers in Akarra (online rpg) || L33T WAR (multiplayer game) || The Asteroid Menace (another game) ]
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