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A game under development, has it crossed the line?

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First of all I must say these things: The game is ment as a parody, The game does not reflect the developers views. The game is ment to be fun. The thing is: Sim Consentration camp, you are a nazi general who tries to run a consentration camp during WW2. You must build builings, assign work to ppl etc, etc. I must stress that neither I or anny of the developers are Nazies or have souch views. I just want to know is this to cross the line? --If you look to the clouds you cant see traps--

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I suppose it could be ultimately seen as a joke towards the Nazis, but the message might be so elaborate that some people might not get it.

Some people might actually WANT to simulate a Nazi concentration camp. Not exactly a great way to spend one's time.

But then again, neither is pulling people out of cars and stealing them, but that's just me! *grin*


[edited by - Waverider on August 17, 2002 8:01:28 AM]

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This does sound a lot like those games that white supremacist groups put out. Then again, it all depends on who you ask. Some jewish orgaizations feel that any games that feature nazis are over the line.

[edited by - HenryAPe on August 17, 2002 8:07:24 AM]

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The Germans were known to try all sorts of atrocities on Jewish and other prisoners of war... mustard gas, public "baths" where all prisoners would die in some horrid manner (leaving dozens or hundreds of bodies in a single jail-cell-like shower room), war propoganda brainwashing, and so on.

Making a parody of it is hardly humane; any descendent of a WW2 vet would be kind to not state his or her objection to your "game".

And I don''t think freedom of speech is at stake here; some topics just are not meant to be turned into entertainment.



MatrixCubed
http://MatrixCubed.cjb.net

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When I first read the post I thought "yeah, you know I guess that could be fun" but then when you look down into the details about it, it becomes a bit more disturbing. I mean, say some of your prisoners escaped but you caught them and brought them back. The game would probably give you the choice of doing some sick stuff like raping them, or executing them infront of their families. To even provide you that option, would be crossing the line I think.

But then, maybe I''m just disturbed for even tracing that line of thought.

-Mezz

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I wouldn''t criticize them harshly for thinking it''s a good idea. Anything can seem funny if it is put in the right context. After considering everything that has been said here, maybe it won''t seem so entertaining anymore.

We give each other feedback like this so that we don''t need good doctors in the long run.

Many years ago I re-did the voices for Doom, giving all the grunts and demons a, *ahem*, feminine quality. Then you could run through the level treating it like you accidentally walked into the wrong place or something. ("Oh, look that at." "Oh my gosh", "Hey big boy".) It was meant as a parody, but the novelty of it wore off quickly. So when I proceeded on and changed the sounds for the larger creatures, like the floating cacodaemons, I used more slapstick, like a popping and fizzing noise when they die. My brother provided a burp for the cyberdemon and I made his footsteps sound like a squeaky toy.

Noone really corrected me on the political incorrectness of it, and thinking back I still have a little giggle about it. But in real life, I sure wouldn''t pull out a gun on anyone who does things differently. I generally don''t care what anyone else does, as long as they don''t try to get me to do it.

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Personally i think humor is a great way for people to talk about about those tragedies.... but with this i think your going to offend alot of people.....

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You see, there is a certain line you can cross...

-Crawl

[edited by - Crawl on August 17, 2002 9:31:43 AM]

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quote:

Waverider
"I wouldn''t criticize them harshly for thinking it''s a good idea"
"We give each other feedback like this so that we don''t need good doctors in the long run."



I don''t criticize them harshly for thinking. Thinking is a good thing.
I do really criticize the fact that a group of people is thinking in making game that emulates a genocide (and puts the player in the role of the intellectual killer) just "for home use". What exactly means that?
Personally I think that kind of "home users" are a little extrange. I don''t censure them, I just give my own personal opinion about the topic and about their way of having fun.

It''s not a problem with Direct Dude, its just what I feel. I''m not jewish but I don''t really cares if someone consider me like one of them. I think they are great people.

And getting a doctor, some times, is quite good thing also.

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Of course, the answer lies right in front of you:

reverse roles!

Let the player run a camp in which the nazis are the one doing all the work.

Create humorous situations that make fun of just about everything you can think of. Force each nazi in the camp to get some weirdo hairdo (like Hitler). Force one nazi to dig a hole, then another to fill it up.

Avoid any references to the truly horrific stuff that went on. Really, if you think about it, the way many Jews have dealt with the atrocities is by making fun of it.

Perhaps, in order to ensure that you make humour the core of the game, try to get someone from Jewish descent to help you with the design.

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i think you are a bastard an insane of mind , when did you have the idea ? do you know what does it mean to have a parent killed in a concentration camp ? do you think its funny to play at something like that ?

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I agree with Silver. Reverse the roles in some way. But maybe it would be best to avoid the whole topic. I don''t think GTA3 crossed the line like this game would... Nobody was ever killed or beaten by a GTA man in real life, and if so, this game has no reference to it at all. This game would be just tastless and cruel.. You are put in charge of prisoners to torture and make them work... Now, if the history isn''t what it was, it might be fine. But the truth is, millions of people were put into real camps like these, and it isn''t funny at all to replay this horror of our past in even a humorous way.

My suggestion to you if you really wanted to make this game: Go ahead and do a prison camp, but don''t do anything related to Nazis, this is a sour subject. Maybe in the year 2203 aliens invaded earth and enslaved humans... so you run a prison in which they stay... or better yet, you are a human running a prioner of war camp for the aliens we are at war with. Maybe you could make the punishments humourous, like the tounge stretcher, or the shrink ray. Try and take your game away from those tender subject matters.

You see how with a little creative writing you can take the exact same idea and place it in a different setting... and voila, no longer insulting...

- Jesse
- SayWhat Studios

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I think it can be done in the right way, as long as the satire is obvious, and it really avoids the heavier topics.

Think of Hogan''s Heroes - a german prison camp, where the tasks would be more along the lines of political maneuvering to say "Hey, look, I''m a good administrator" or some such. Tasks should be things along the lines of finding the tunnels that the prisoners are digging, repairing things the prisoners have booby-trapped, and just trying to put on a good show when a higher official comes for a visit.

Avoid the topics of physical violence, torture, death, etc., and show the nazis as bumbling idiots, and this could actually work.

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We will ofcourse not have punishment simulators!! that would be sick.

The game (if created) wil be angeled very humorus..
Im sorry if the consept troubles some of you, I am indeed.

I would like some more input on how to make it work without beeing a nazi game.

--If you look to the clouds you cant see traps--

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I'm going to put it this way, because I can see some people doesn't get it:

Your mom is death. A guy came in the middle of the night, abused of her and then slowly killed her to finally cut her in little pieces and eat her sexual parts. You, being a child, were there and saw the entire escene.

Then I come and post a Thread called: "Does a game based on your mom's death cross the line?"

"I want to do a game based on that because, in some way I find it funny and interesting" I would not publish it, I will make it just for "home use".

Have any of you any doubt about the FACT that this is WRONG???
Do any of you find any difference between this example and what is goin on here?

[edited by - xaxa on August 17, 2002 12:08:26 PM]

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This entire thread is bullshit. The original poster needs to seriously evaluate his mental stability.

Who in their right mind would ever want to produce a game which puts you in control of one of history''s most disgusting, disturbing, and tragic genocides? Thousands of innocents lives were brutalized, tortured, experimented on, and ultimately stripped away from people simlpy because of their religion. No matter how you try to sugar-coat it, this is NOT MATERIAL for a game .

It will just be for your home use? Great, a home psychotic tool to satisify your disturbed, warped, fat-ass cravings to simulate and control the holocaust.

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