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Tollman

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Has there been any movement, to start programming in VS .NET, or is everyone pretty much still sticking with VS 6.0? I''ve been out of the loop for a while, and I''m just getting back.

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I''ve been using VS.NET for 14 months now



When I look upon seamen, men of physical science, and philosophers, man is the wisest of all beings. When I look upon priests, prophets, and interpreters of dreams, nothing is so contemptible as man.


  Diogenes

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Hi! Well, most companies still prefer C++ for their game project. Most of them (I guess) are using VS.NET but without using the the .NET platform!
Currently I''m playing a little bit around with C# and I''m quite sure, that C# will become the future language for games (in the next 3-5 years)
If you are interested - take a look at:
www.bunnz.com

Have fun
Bunnz

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Thanks for the info and the URL. I''ll look into this. I''m really excited about this, because I''ve been programming in VS .NET now for about 4 months, and it just occured to me that hey I like the VS .NET Environment much better, so it would be great to program my games with it. Thanks again.

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quote:
Original post by Bunnz
Currently I''m playing a little bit around with C# and I''m quite sure, that C# will become the future language for games (in the next 3-5 years)



Do you think it is fast enough? I remember when people use to develop games with Watcom C because it produced code that was like 5 or 10% faster than other compilers.

Do you think the garbage collection is an issue?

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Hi Jim
C# is definitely slower than C++, maybe it''s too slow, but you can implement the speed critical parts in (managed) C++. It is also really easy to access nonmanaged dlls!!!
In my opinion it''s much more important to speed up the game creation process than the actual game. Better a slow game than no game
I know this is a very controversial opinion in the gaming industry, but I think that the average game programmer tend to overestimate the speed factor.
However, gfx boards become faster and free a lot of ressources which can be wasted by using C#

Have fun
Bunnz

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I have been looking at C# and this is what my thoughts (and predictions) are...

C# is too slow for the gaming standard. Sure it is cleaner and easier, but ''easy'' has never actually been an issue for hardcore gaming companies. Just look at Doom III, the people there are doing -everything- they can to gain frames. That''s how it is right now I''m afraid...

Although there is another future for C#, for it is the perfect application-development language. Clean and easy it makes for perfect business applications. This is what my best guess is anyway.

-----------------------------
Valkyrias: Tears of Valkyries
quote:
Original post by Bunnz
but you can implement the speed critical parts in (managed) C++.



I assume you mean unmanaged C++, because managed C++ is compiled to the exact same byte-code as C# and undergoes the same JIT''ing and garbage collection that C# does (hence making managed C++ no faster than C#).

If I had my way, I''d have all of you shot!


codeka.com - Just click it.

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quote:
Just look at Doom III, the people there are doing -everything- they can to gain frames.

This argument is not as damning for the language as it may first seem since most top-selling games do not use bleeding-edge performance like Doom III and since unmanaged code can be used to optimize the performance-critical sections of applications that really need it.

The worst problem with a language like C# is that it is not likely to make it onto consoles, except MAYBE the Xbox (and the Xbox only holds a tiny share of the market). The console market is very important for serious developers and currently C and C++ are the only languages that offer any form of portability between both PCs and consoles.


[edited by - HenryAPe on September 13, 2002 1:41:30 AM]

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I''m still personaly not convinced about the raw speed of C#
yes, it is good when being used for a server side system, or a bussines app (althought, saying that the only .Net application i have has VERY slow responce when i click on buttons, and my system isnt too shabby either ) and is probably the way forward, but when it comes to games its a whole different beast.

For one thing, you have a whole extra layer between you and the hardware as the JIT conversion still has to take place, which has to make it slower and will be noticeable when it comes to frame rate.

also, games WILL be using bleeding edge tech when they start using the Doom3 and UT2K3 engines for game production (as has happened with the UT and Quake3 engine already)

But, part of me can see some logic behind going to C# from the hardware venders point of view, we all goto C#, programs react slower, maybe even require more memory so people upgrade RAM and CPUs to get back to the performance they already had.

Someone pretty much said ''oh, things are getting faster, people have more RAM, so we can waste more resouces with C#'' to that I say utter utter rubbish, we should be using these extra resources to make things work better, faster and in the case of games look and feel better, more AI, better sounds, better maps, better collision detection, not bloat out your code just because you have the space... I spent ages one night defending games programmer for not being lazy just because games demand higher specs, but that kinda arguement makes me wonder if its worth while defending the idea, personaly I prefer small, tight code, min. wasteage, heck i''m loathed to add a varible to a class at times until I have used up any way of reusing i can think of doing.

Speeding up the game creation process is all very well and good, but its not going to help you if you bung out a load of games which run @ 20fps max and say to the consumer, he dont make fast games, we just make games quickly.

To the person who said you can just used normal C/C++ in critical sections, i''d be VERY surprised if that kinda swap didnt have some performance hit of its own.

I''m not saying C# and the .NET thing is a bad thing, it looks good and looks like what Java should have been, but like Java, even with JIT I dont see how it can perform at the same level as C/C++ (and yes, i know there are some test somewhere which show C# performing at the same speed as C++, but as was once said, you can make stats prove anything, and if your pushing and langauge you want to make it look as good as you can)

btw, personaly, I dont think you can beat VS.Net for C/C++ developement

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