Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Dragon Ball Z

This topic is 5557 days old which is more than the 365 day threshold we allow for new replies. Please post a new topic.

If you intended to correct an error in the post then please contact us.

Recommended Posts

It''s obvious what my post is about. What I want to know if you anyone here thinks it''s a possible market for video games. Obviously there are developers making games for the franchise but all those are crappy. I want to know if anyone here, besides me, thinks it''s possible to make a good Dragon Ball Z game. NOTE: If this gets anywhere as far as drumming up ideas I''ll share my but for right now I''ll be satisfied with general responses. Bleu Shift - www.bleushift.tk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
OFF TOPIC (sorry, but I MUST know):
I don''t understand what the fascination is with Dragon Ball Z. I have only seen the cartoon a few times, but it is not that good, really. It is horribly drawn and animated, the dialogue and stories are cliche and lame (are there some 8 year old Japanese boys writing this?), and the fight scenes are ridiculous! In this one episode I saw, the guy decided to use his "Super Ultra Mega Fireball Punch" (or some such crap), and it took him the entire part between two commercial breaks to "charge it up". In another, some alien character zapped this green dude with red swirly lines, and for at least three minutes the scene just changed between the green guy looking like he was in great pain and the other guy floating in the air with these red lines shooting from his head.
And yet, this show seems to be more popular than Pokemon, which while silly and all at least had cute little animals!
Am I missing something?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
quote:
Original post by krez
And yet, this show seems to be more popular than Pokemon, which while silly and all at least had cute little animals!
Am I missing something?

I thought I was the only one that thought this... WHY do people like it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
quote:
Original post by krez
OFF TOPIC (sorry, but I MUST know):
I don't understand what the fascination is with Dragon Ball Z. I have only seen the cartoon a few times, but it is not that good, really. It is horribly drawn and animated, the dialogue and stories are cliche and lame (are there some 8 year old Japanese boys writing this?), and the fight scenes are ridiculous! In this one episode I saw, the guy decided to use his "Super Ultra Mega Fireball Punch" (or some such crap), and it took him the entire part between two commercial breaks to "charge it up". In another, some alien character zapped this green dude with red swirly lines, and for at least three minutes the scene just changed between the green guy looking like he was in great pain and the other guy floating in the air with these red lines shooting from his head.
And yet, this show seems to be more popular than Pokemon, which while silly and all at least had cute little animals!
Am I missing something?


The person whom you referred to as drawing the cartoon "horribly" would happen to be a VERY respected artist (if you will) named Akira Toriyama, now that name might sound familiar because he has also dabbled in drawing and animating characters in video games (Chrono Trigger from Final Fantasy Chronicles, if im not mistaken, is an example) now working for such a company (Square-Electronic Arts) is merit enough in my opinion. Oh and if you can't tell I like DBZ.

Peace out.

EDIT: A note for the layperson, I understand that Mr. Toriyama doesn't actually draw every piece of such works, but that of course the designs are his intellectual property.

[edited by - Shaun_30 on September 11, 2002 9:50:19 PM]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
quote:

I thought I was the only one that thought this... WHY do people like it?



I think the reason people like DBZ is because of Dragon ball which is a much better show.

back on topic

sure there can be a good DBZ game

I can picture it already with Cel Shading and Goku and Freeza



[edited by - on December 25, 2002 11:41:33 PM]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don''t know if I can explain why, but I do recognize the feeling. It''s the same one I get when watching a good rpg.

The thing about the odd fight scenes is that the fighters are moving so fast and the artist is trying to convey their superhuman abilities.

They charge up way too slow! Yes, I agree. What they''re going for is building tension but they usually take it a little too far. They also have way too many grunts and other nonvocals that go on for way too long. I prefer eloquent dialogue to show me the state of the character. I think there''s a limit to how much expression can be drawn.

Pokemon is actually a really good show(even if at times a bit redundant, I mean, how many times must I hear Team Rocket''s introduction and parting line).

What I really don''t get is how people continue to like Scooby-Doo. I watched it and didn''t hate it when I was little, but just a couple of years and I grew up to the point where I realized how bad that show really is(the chases actually were not the worst part).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The idea of becoming something more than you were in times of stress and need(Supersaiyan) is a very attractive idea, and one that is completely absent from Western culture.(it''s rooted, I believe, in Buddhism)

That said, I like only those episodes that deal with the concept.(Goku''s 1st level transformation, Vegeta''s 1st level transformation, Gohan''s 2nd level transformation, and to a lesser extent, his first)

However, some people like to identify with the ueberclass that the characters represent. Also, the show''s really, really funny in parts. The whole, powerful enough to vaporize a mountain with a punch, but being scared of your wife, thing is really funny. Then there''s the "I don''t want you to become another worthless fighter like your father." thing with Gohan. Then there''s the Gohan teenage years, where he puts on a costume and calls himself "Saiyaman!", and adopts really ridiculous poses. That part''s particularly funny when you consider that the poses he adopts are the ones that he''s laughed at previously. It''s also funny to see superhumanly powerful men cowering at a (comparatively weak) female. During the teenage part, it''s funny to see Gohan, someone strong enough to destroy the earth, anxious when he goes to school. Then when "Hercule" comes(in the Japanese version, he''s called Mr. Satan) and boasts about his strength, you get to see all these guys who could break him in two with the snap of their pinky finger acting nonchalant as he boasts about being the strongest fighter in the universe. Then you get to see a kid who''s like 6 years old knock him 10 meters with one punch, winning the match, and everyone thinking he''s just being a good sport.

The fight scenes aren''t really about the fighting. You can tell when the characters are first introduced who would win in a fight. After that, it''s just the emotion. Let''s take Cell as an example. When first introduced, he''s stronger than all of the characters. Then, Piccolo does something drastic to make himself stronger. The evil character(evil characters are always cowardly donchaknow) runs away after recognizing his weakness to try an become stronger. It just happens that his particular method of becoming stronger is to assimilate some previous enemies to which all the characters lost(Goku, presumably, would be strong enough, but he''s incapacitated at that point), becoming, again, inconceivably strong. The enemies are confident in their strength, but are, as confidence always indicates, overestimating themselves. After the first of two is assimilated, the good guys run to the second''s rescue. She runs into hiding. You get to see an enemy being protected by someone who, only days before, was their enemy, and to whom they lost. Then you get to see one of the good guys fall in love with this former adversary.(which is funny for various reasons) You get to see a stark change in attitude from confidence to terror. She is, eventually, assimilated as well, but not before Vegeta and Future Trunks(the best adjunct to the series, I''ve heard, is the DBZ movie in which his future is shown) get some training. As a result, they''re confident. In fact, Vegeta has practically no aspect to his character besides his ego. You get to see this ego shattered and the internal chaos this causes. You get to see Trunks'' concealed belief that he is stronger than Vegeta shattered with a realization that he is not only not usefully more powerful, but stupid in thinking that this particular brand of strength was useful. You get to see Cell toying with the whole world. Then you get to see Goku step down and have faith in his son that his son does not believe is well-founded. Tragedy and irony can be found in the fact that he only finds the strength he needs when his friends die, the course his father tried to prevent by sending his son out in the first place. Then he makes a mistake that negates the value of his power, and ceases to have faith in himself once again(although this does not cause him to lose the power that he gained by having the faith once). Then you get to see the ideal bond between a father and a son as the father encourages Gohan.

The fact that this story takes place in different ways during iterations of the same archetype is irrelevant.

That said, if you''ve seen the part of DBZ that takes place on Namek, you should find a parody called Buttlord GT.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I will tell ya... I have worked on a dragonball Z game for about 2 years on and off. I have finally reached the point to where it could become an interesting online game. In order to do so you have to -slightly alter- the way dbz runs. As many of you know, in dbz, if you are stronger than your opponent(by just as little as 10%) then you will win unless your opponent has a secret technique that is powerful. This would essentually mean that whoever is stronger, in say a dbz mmorpg, would just win. Like I said before, I had finally gotten around that problem(and without discarding powerlevels), and everyone I talked to has really liked the idea.

Btw, a lot of people seem to think it has horrible drawing, and a crappy storyline, etc... First off, only the manga was drawn by Akira Toriyama, the anime was by a group of crappy animators, and it adds filler scenes that make no sense. Second off, most people like it because of how cool the fighting scenes look, and because the fighters are so powerful. As long as you don''t nitpick, its just fine. I really didn''t have much of a point to this post besides this: Any dbz game you openly advertise will fail without prior consent from funimation and/or Infogrames. Either they will catch wind and shut you down, or the team will break apart because the game sucks/other reasons. Not to downplay... well anything, but unless you pop out 2/3-d games all the time, of the fighting genre(rpg is easy to add, balancing is not), then I would suggest working on the game first, until its all good, and then work on the game slowly. If you can(which is totally possible) work on it by yourself, and as long as you have determination, you will finish. If you want, however, after you have finished some sort of demo... with graphics, and have the balance... and its not in Basic(c/c++ is required), then you can ask people to join, and they will. Then just make sure you don''t create a website for it until you are, releasing it... and get the word out fast.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Anonymous Poster
You might want to take caution before making a game that uses copyrighted material if you plan to publicly release it. Even if you don''t make a dime off of the game, you can still be sued for infringement. Companies don''t mess around with IP rights.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The good thing about Dragonball Z from a development perspective is the fact that you only need two key frames for any animated action, and you don't even need to interpolate, you just switch between them very fast.

Also, it is really easy to come up with a story line:

1.Baddie comes along.
2.Goodies go "wow, his power level is < INSERT BIG NUMBER HERE >"
3.Goodies try to beat baddie up, but get their ass handed to them.
3.One of the goodies gets really cross. Cue short scene of goodie looking really cross and saying "Grrrr".
4.Cross goodie goes and fights baddie. baddie zaps him with 'super saiyan' power attack. Other goodies go "Oh no! he's dead!"
5.Goodie climbs out of crater, looking slightly more cross, and saying "Grrrr" some more.
6. Repeat steps 4-5 until half hour is up or mental retardation sets in.

Sorry if this is a bit trollish, but I really hate DBZ. The only way you can make a decent DBZ game in my opinion would be to make it absolutely nothing like DBZ.

Also, the AP above/King Russ have good points. DBZ is copyrighted etc, so you won't be able to do much with your game unless you have permission.

[edited by - Sandman on September 12, 2002 6:58:41 AM]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well first of all, DBZ is a good show (not the best). If anyone saw the show BEFORE it was shown on Cartoon Network/Funimation then you will realize that the scenes, voices, and script was much better than the Cartoon Network version.

But to try to answer the original question....
I think first and foremost it has to be multiplayer THREE or more players standard. Online accessibility will be necessary.
Also there will be have to be varying version or add-ons to the game. For example the first game would be based on the story. But the add-on would allow players to take on challengers from different galaxies (or quadrants as it is called in the series). Obviously Saiyans will have to be some way balanced so they will not be the gods of the games. Or else there will be no point in playing the game after a week.

1) Design: There should be only the original crew namely Goku, Gohan, Piccolo, Yamcha, Tien, Roshi, ChiChi, Chaozu (little guy), Raditz, Yajirobe as playable fighters. In the beginning. Then as the game progresses other players would be accessible (ie. Vegeta, Nappa, Nail, Frieza, Ginyu, Zarbon....) Each starting (initially) with their original power level.

1a) World: Full 3D environment, physics (loose but consistent), as stated below mirror DB and DBZ world as close as possible.

2) Gameplay: now for the this to work, players would have to react to their opponents just as they would in the show. Example, if Goku has a power level (PW) of 400 then Raditz, who has a PW of 1200 should be ridiculously fast to him. Now if it is Vegeta and Raditz fighting then Raditz would be humorously slow. (hopefully you understand what i'm trying to say). Also moves would be learned as PW went up or during a certain situation (ex: Goku going to King Kai and learning KaioKen).

3) AI: base them on the cartoon (sounds easy huh

4) Moves (execution): should be like SFII or by keyboard input.
No <- <- ->. Sometimes that worse IMO.

5) There should be online tournaments. If there isn't don't bother making the games, players should be able to fight whoever they want online but know that they may not have a chance to his opponents much less win if the fighter is considerably strong. Also stages, worlds should mirror DBZ world(s) as close as possible (should have put this in design).

If someone implemented these ideas (at least) then they would have a good game IMO. Also the best Dragonball Z game I believe was Legends (I wish you could have performed the special moves though at any time in the game instead of at the end of the fight). Final Bout would have been good if it was quicker and full 3D movement.

As a game it would be probably one of the best games because of the sheer amount of capabilities one could do, but to fully implement them is a task for 50 people


(ideas, preliminary design; copyrighted by Clothere Grammont 9/2002)
it might seem silly but you never know
Knowledge is what you learn, wisdom is how you apply it.






find your element
at mutedfaith.com.
<º>



[edited by - Alpha_ProgDes on September 12, 2002 8:07:28 AM]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yea, I did sort of forget to mention that. Technically my game has nothing to do with dbz since it contains no characters or storyline from the show. The whole thing with dbz is, all the fans have played all the games, and know the whole storyline. About the only thing that will interest them is the whole storyline in one game, that can be altered by what they do(majorly altered), or a completely new storyline under the same pretense. My game doesn''t have much of a storyline because its based upon fighting, getting stronger... adventuring, and those type of things. What kind of engine? Anyone where real physics are used(if you are good with math) or anyone that is a good 3-d engine, ...maybe one with good projectile stuff. That is, unless you wanna roll with a 2d engine, although that changes the whole context of the game.

Also, one more comment... about the person who said you don''t even need to (interpolate?) the graphics, and you could just use a couple frames... you are wrong, unless you create a game where everyone is equal in power. Powerful people... rather, people much more powerful than others see people as if it were in slow motion, thus they wouldn''t disappear when doing their moves, they would be all slow. They would also get their "Tail" kicked pretty bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
quote:
Shaun_30 said:
I don''t understand what the fascination is with Dragon Ball Z. I have only seen the cartoon a few times, but it is not that good, really.


You have to have to watch it more than a few times to get used to it. That happened to me too, but I insisted watching it and I finally got the point, and realized that it''s pretty cool and original.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Anonymous Poster
quote:
Also, one more comment... about the person who said you don''t even need to (interpolate?) the graphics, and you could just use a couple frames... you are wrong, unless you create a game where everyone is equal in power.


I think the original poster was sardonically refering to the fact that most of the DBZ shows consist of approximately 5 frames of animation that are shown repeatedly with varying dialog.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
wow. this post went from how to make a GOOD DBZ game to is the DBZ cartoon good?

well i agree with King Russ. a good 3D engine would be best. but the physics couldn''t be real(?). i mean the stuff they do in the cartoon are beyond real physics at times.

i guess the Q3 engine is a good candidate for an undertaking like this. if someone was to actually make the game.

thoughts opinion on HOW TO MAKE A GOOD/GREAT DBZ game please post.
thoughts on the cartoon post elsewhere

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I like the idea of DBZ and when they start to fight it can be quite good, but too many of the episodes tend to be either made up of talking or clips from previous episodes with cheesy narration by a character (Piccolo seems to be the most guilty of the DBZ gang).

Apparently they are doing a live-action DBZ film, just hope it doesn''t have the silly sticky up hair, actually scratch that, it wouldn''t be DBZ without silly hair.

- DarkIce

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
actually the nazi are infogrames....
i heard that a DBZ called Bid for Power (?) was being made and it was pretty good even better than what Infogrames had. It used the Q3 engine (obviously it was TC). but of course Infogrames shut it down. jealous bastards..... there new DBZ for GBA is a rehash of an old DBZ game i think that was on the Snes. poor unsuspecting kids.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
well i''m not a proponent of copyright infringement but i''m glad they got the source out. i''m pretty sure the game was open source. so i don''t know or understand why they would take the time to shut it down.

if anyone could tell me (a moderator hopefully) why it is necessary then please do.

also what would want to see in a DBZ game?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Anonymous Poster
I know at first it seems like, "Hey, they didn''t make any money, so what is the big deal." The problem is, it does not matter whether or not you make money off of a deritive work. If you take someone elses copyrighted work, incorporate it into your own work, and try to pass the final product off as your own, and you do not have permission to use the other persons work, what you have is copyright infringement. Not making any money will just make you look a little better when the judge decides how much you have to pay in damages. Damages you say? Yes, companies spend time and money to create their works, advertise, etc. Why would they want to let people ride their coat-tails for free. Look at it another way. What if you create a free DBZ game that is in direct competition with a commercial DBZ game. The commercial game company has paid a licensing fee to legally use DBZ material. You paid no fee, you just rip off the names and images. The commercial company want $49.99 for their game; you give yours away for free. No one buys the commercial game when word gets out that they can get yours for free. It could be argued that your copyright infringement is taking revenue away from the commercial company, and don''t think that a court would not see it that way. The Bid for Power group should be happy that all they got was a slap on the wrist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
oh! well then that''s a good point.
i see the folly of my thinking.
but maybe it''s good if they got it out.
then it''ll keep the commercial from releasing such crap when they
see a indie group making better quality game for the love (read in
also "free!") of making games.

just my two cents?

any ideas on how you would make a DBZ-type game?
what would you put?
what hardware/software/engine would you use?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites