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Shambles

what an RPG really is

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Hi I see a lot of posts and I mean TONS about RPGs but many confuse me. What do the people in this forum think an RPG is? These posts confused me so much, that I decided to look into what an RPG really is. Note This whole post is based on the assumption that Dungeons and Dragons is the first RPG. If this is wrong then please disregard this post. The first RPG To my knowlege, the first RPG is D&D (Dungeons and Dragons.) This post depends on you knowing at least a little bit of how the board game plays like. The Japanese factor The first game to definely shape the ''Japanese RPG'' was Dragon Quest (known as Dragon Warrior in the US.) It involved an epic story, and a character which you move in a world map or city. When you were in the world map, you would encounter monsters at random and a battle window would pop-up allowing you to make decisions in a turn-based manner. Of course the game borrowed a little bit from other games which tried to translate D&D into something playable on a gaming machine. Here is an example of what I mean by "tanslating D&D": In D&D there are rooms. Unexplored rooms had the possibility of enemies lurking inside them. When you entered an unexplored room, the monsters (or treasure, unicorn, ect.) of the room would become visible to you. What the creators of Dragon Quest did was add these sort of "rooms" but made the player encounter them randomly. What the creators also did was make all the enemies easy to get at compared to D&D, where you have to walk up to your enemies (of course with the exeption of ranged weapons.) AD&D AD&D was a way to play D&D interactively. AD&D never involved any kind of strategic decision making as they did in ''Japanese RPGs''. Therefore, ''Japanese RPGs'' are not real RPGs, but original interpretations of D&D. RPG = Role Playing Game I see many people in the forums talking about how Balder''s Gate is too boring to be and RPG. They argue that an RPG is supposed to have: a deep and long story, anime intro and song, and comic releif with bizare talking creatures. They also point out that there isn''t a lot of actual role playing. These people take the acronym far too literally. The fact is that RPG is a type of gameplay. Japanese.. "Epic"? The many false RPG games coming from Japan should have a genre of its own. A good name I would guess is "Epic". Because when you really think of it, all of these so-called ''Japanese RPGs'' involve some epic story. I''m no expert... I have only spent a month looking for what an RPG is so some of my assumptions may be wrong. But I know one thing is for sure; ''Japanese RPGs'' are NOT RPGs, and all those other games (Dungeon Siege, Diablo, Balder''s Gate) ARE RPGs. Wait a sec!! I love Japanese "Epics" I love Final Fantasy, Breath of Fire, and all those other game people assume to be RPGs. Its just that I''m tired of hearing people whining about how RPGs these days are bad. Further definiton of "Epic" games What I would say an epic game is, is a game which involves some epic story, and a strategic battle system. In closing.. RPG = type of gameplay which doesn''t require a ''Japanese Epic'' type of story. Thank you, -Shambles

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an rpg does not have to be fantasy, epic, japanese or anime. all an rpg needs to be an rpg is the player assumes the role of another person, levels his/her skills up, and does quests. look at fallout and fallout2 for example.. very open ended rpg system that totally smashes the fantasy\anime cliche that all the rpg lovers obsess over. this is what all rpg''s boil down to. some are more strict and are basicly interactive novels(final fantasy series?).. while others give u alot of freedom (Ultima Online). Nothing at all is wrong with any of them.. all it is is matter of preference.

"The human mind is limited only by the bounds which we impose upon ourselves." -iNfuSeD

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Your post seems to communicate that you have no knowledge at all of the pen-and-paper RPG and its history, but are basing yourself solely off of computer implementations...

"Role playing" is an absolute core element of RPGs, which has never been translated with much success to the computer medium.

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Yes. the reason that RPG''s are the way they are on computers now a days is cause when they were first developed it is what they were limited to. 15 years down the road (or however long its been) and they still pretty much follow the same model that the earlier ones were forced into due to lack of power. Aren''t computers powerful enough these days to create something a wee bit different from what everything has been for the past decade?

quote:
Original post by MadKeithV
Your post seems to communicate that you have no knowledge at all of the pen-and-paper RPG and its history, but are basing yourself solely off of computer implementations...

"Role playing" is an absolute core element of RPGs, which has never been translated with much success to the computer medium.






"The human mind is limited only by the bounds which we impose upon ourselves." -iNfuSeD

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quote:
Original post by MadKeithV
Your post seems to communicate that you have no knowledge at all of the pen-and-paper RPG and its history, but are basing yourself solely off of computer implementations...

"Role playing" is an absolute core element of RPGs, which has never been translated with much success to the computer medium.




I indeed know practicly nothing about pen-and-paper RPG. My post is on computer implementation; I though this was a computer/console game development site.

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quote:
Original post by Shambles
I indeed know practicly nothing about pen-and-paper RPG. My post is on computer implementation; I though this was a computer/console game development site.


Yes, but an RPG is an RPG... the name has been grossly misused for a genre of computer games. If you had an application whereby you could juggle a few pieces of wood near a black-and-white grid in 3D, and called it "chess", people would object too.


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quote:
Original post by iNfuSeD
an rpg does not have to be fantasy, epic, japanese or anime. all an rpg needs to be an rpg is the player assumes the role of another person


Thats exactly what I''m talking about in my post. RPG is not just about assuming the role of another person, its a whole gameplay type.

That line about anime intro and song was a little joke , but when I say "Epic", I mean a story with a plot (usually as long and as deep as possible.)

Now I havn''t played Fallout, but I''m assuming it has a good story? correct me if I''m wrong.

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quote:
Original post by MadKeithV
Yes, but an RPG is an RPG... the name has been grossly misused for a genre of computer games. If you had an application whereby you could juggle a few pieces of wood near a black-and-white grid in 3D, and called it "chess", people would object too.



But assuming D&D is the first RPG, isn''t AD&D the first official implementation for computer/console?

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quote:
Original post by Shambles
But assuming D&D is the first RPG, isn''t AD&D the first official implementation for computer/console?


No, AD&D was a pen-and-paper system, followed by AD&D 2nd Edition, now followed by 3rd Edition (called D&D again, just to confuse people).

But the first widely accepted computer implementations emerged with the AD&D 2nd Edition rules.

I think the first computer game was an "rpg" of sorts - Hack the amulet of Yendor in fact. A rogue-like game (somewhat like diablo).


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quote:
Original post by Shambles
Thats exactly what I''m talking about in my post. RPG is not just about assuming the role of another person, its a whole gameplay type.

That line about anime intro and song was a little joke , but when I say "Epic", I mean a story with a plot (usually as long and as deep as possible.)

Now I havn''t played Fallout, but I''m assuming it has a good story? correct me if I''m wrong.


no but u see.. rpg''s are nothing more then playing a role of someone else.. slap any story line over it an it works just as well. its not a whole gameplay type.. its just what all the rpg developers decide to follow and stick to.. even though essentially it is not true role playing at all. and yes.. fall out is good.. post appocolyptic world after nuclear war in america''s golden age. done very well.

quote:
Original post by Shambles
But assuming D&D is the first RPG, isn''t AD&D the first official implementation for computer/console?



no.. not at all. probably the first ''official'' computer/console rpgs were MUD''s or multi user dungeons... usually found on local BBS''s (bullentin board systems) and most certainly text based. AD&D had its own mockup computer game, true.. but AD&D is nothing more then a more advanced form of D&D played with paper, dice, friends, heavy books, and enormous amounts of junk food.


"The human mind is limited only by the bounds which we impose upon ourselves." -iNfuSeD

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