what an RPG really is

Shambles · 2002-09-14T05:29:52

Hi I see a lot of posts and I mean TONS about RPGs but many confuse me. What do the people in this forum think an RPG is? These posts confused me so much, that I decided to look into what an RPG really is. Note This whole post is based on the assumption that Dungeons and Dragons is the first RPG. If this is wrong then please disregard this post. The first RPG To my knowlege, the first RPG is D&D (Dungeons and Dragons.) This post depends on you knowing at least a little bit of how the board game plays like. The Japanese factor The first game to definely shape the ''Japanese RPG'' was Dragon Quest (known as Dragon Warrior in the US.) It involved an epic story, and a character which you move in a world map or city. When you were in the world map, you would encounter monsters at random and a battle window would pop-up allowing you to make decisions in a turn-based manner. Of course the game borrowed a little bit from other games which tried to translate D&D into something playable on a gaming machine. Here is an example of what I mean by "tanslating D&D": In D&D there are rooms. Unexplored rooms had the possibility of enemies lurking inside them. When you entered an unexplored room, the monsters (or treasure, unicorn, ect.) of the room would become visible to you. What the creators of Dragon Quest did was add these sort of "rooms" but made the player encounter them randomly. What the creators also did was make all the enemies easy to get at compared to D&D, where you have to walk up to your enemies (of course with the exeption of ranged weapons.) AD&D AD&D was a way to play D&D interactively. AD&D never involved any kind of strategic decision making as they did in ''Japanese RPGs''. Therefore, ''Japanese RPGs'' are not real RPGs, but original interpretations of D&D. RPG = Role Playing Game I see many people in the forums talking about how Balder''s Gate is too boring to be and RPG. They argue that an RPG is supposed to have: a deep and long story, anime intro and song, and comic releif with bizare talking creatures. They also point out that there isn''t a lot of actual role playing. These people take the acronym far too literally. The fact is that RPG is a type of gameplay. Japanese.. "Epic"? The many false RPG games coming from Japan should have a genre of its own. A good name I would guess is "Epic". Because when you really think of it, all of these so-called ''Japanese RPGs'' involve some epic story. I''m no expert... I have only spent a month looking for what an RPG is so some of my assumptions may be wrong. But I know one thing is for sure; ''Japanese RPGs'' are NOT RPGs, and all those other games (Dungeon Siege, Diablo, Balder''s Gate) ARE RPGs. Wait a sec!! I love Japanese "Epics" I love Final Fantasy, Breath of Fire, and all those other game people assume to be RPGs. Its just that I''m tired of hearing people whining about how RPGs these days are bad. Further definiton of "Epic" games What I would say an epic game is, is a game which involves some epic story, and a strategic battle system. In closing.. RPG = type of gameplay which doesn''t require a ''Japanese Epic'' type of story. Thank you, -Shambles

Game Design and Theory Game Design

Started by Shambles September 13, 2002 08:31 AM

54 comments, last by Shambles 21 years, 7 months ago

Shambles

122

Author

September 13, 2002 10:12 AM

quote:Original post by Rian
How can you catagorize a game based on story, length, or art style?!? That''s not what an RPG is, or what they''re all about. A Role Playing Game is just that: a game in which you take the role of a person or party of people. It''s not about anime or great intro music. It''s not about unicorns or Japanese programmers.

Thats what I said: I said that RPGs shouldn''t be though of this way (story length and art.) I''m just saying that if you dont inherit enough from the first RPG, then its not one. All the ''Japanese RPGs'' seemed to have inherited from D&D is the experience-type system where you build up your character.

"Everything has a reason."

Rian

121

September 13, 2002 10:14 AM

quote:Original post by Sandman

No it shouldn't. RPG should mean 'ROLE PLAY GAME' because that's what the letters stand for. The battle system is completely irrelevant, you don't even NEED combat in an RPG.

This is true. You don't need combat (but it would be boring!)

Proof: imagine Musashi w/o badguys. You would still gain "Wisdom" from walking around, and so you would in a way still be improving, and thus improving your role (peacefully! amazing...).

For those of you who don't know Musashi (which is probably most of you) it's a stupid RPG by Square which attempts to combine Zelda-like gameplay with Final Fantasy-like stats.

[edited by - Rian on September 13, 2002 11:15:46 AM]

I can imagine a world without hate, a world without fear, a world without war. And I can imagine us attacking that world, because they would never expect it. -Jack Handy

Shambles

122

Author

September 13, 2002 10:17 AM

quote:Original post by pwd
I am sure that you are not familiar with LARP

No I''m not.

quote:Original post by pwd
The definition is in "playing a role", not in the mechanics.

Thats what I''m argueing; Its about the mechanics. RPG can mean almost anything and is too general a genre.

"Everything has a reason."

Rian

121

September 13, 2002 10:22 AM

quote:Original post by Shambles
RPG can mean almost anything and is too general a genre.

Unless it invovles improving yourself, or your "role," its not an RPG. Not every game does that. Most don''t. Like I said before, Mario is not an RPG because Mario is still the same stupid plumber the whole game through. He doesn''t get any better. Sure, there''s a story line and a role, but he doesn''t improve through it!

I can imagine a world without hate, a world without fear, a world without war. And I can imagine us attacking that world, because they would never expect it. -Jack Handy

Sandman

2,211

September 13, 2002 10:23 AM

quote:Original post by Shambles
If you take the acronym too seriously, then EVERY game becomes an RPG.

Not really, unless you take a very casual definition of the term 'roleplay'.

When you play mario, are you really 'roleplaying' him? Are you thinking "Now, if I was an italian plumber, and I was faced with an evil spiky tortoise thing, what would I do?"

Of course you aren't. You aren't putting yourself in the character's role at all, you are just bouncing around on platforms and stomping on bad guys.

[edited by - Sandman on September 13, 2002 11:24:27 AM]

Shambles

122

Author

September 13, 2002 10:24 AM

quote:Original post by Rian
There are two main types of RPGs, and neither of them have to do with where they are from or their storyline:

Classic RPG: character gets stronger through experience, e.g. Final Fantasy, Dragon Warrior, D&D

Adventure RPG: character gets stronger through items/events, e.g. Zelda, Dark Cloud

There are other types which are basicly mixes of these main catagories.

Let me redevide those for you:
''Japanese Epic'': game with captivating storyline and a strategic battle system, e.g. Final Fantasy, Dragon Warrior

RPG: Game that inherits a certain amount from D&D, e.g. D&D Dungeon Siege, Balder''s Gate

"Everything has a reason."

Rian

121

September 13, 2002 10:26 AM

quote:Original post by Shambles
All the ''Japanese RPGs'' seemed to have inherited from D&D is the experience-type system where you build up your character.

YES! That''s my point! That IS what makes an RPG. Improving your role! Now do you see what links all RPG''s together?

I can imagine a world without hate, a world without fear, a world without war. And I can imagine us attacking that world, because they would never expect it. -Jack Handy

Shambles

122

Author

September 13, 2002 10:27 AM

quote:Original post by Rian
Unless it invovles improving yourself, or your "role," its not an RPG. Not every game does that. Most don''t. Like I said before, Mario is not an RPG because Mario is still the same stupid plumber the whole game through. He doesn''t get any better. Sure, there''s a story line and a role, but he doesn''t improve through it!

Does RPG contain any words that mean character building? Nope. When you play Super Mario Bros., you assume the role of the beloved (not stupid) plumber.

"Everything has a reason."

Shambles

122

Author

September 13, 2002 10:29 AM

quote:Original post by Rian
YES! That''s my point! That IS what makes an RPG. Improving your role! Now do you see what links all RPG''s together?

No!! Its only a part of what the original RPG was, you have to inherit more than that to become and RPG.

"Everything has a reason."

Miserable

606

September 13, 2002 10:30 AM

quote:
Original post by Sandman, on a different thread here

What DOES make a good RPG is enabling the player to develop a complete character. You could have the best story in the world, it still isn't a 'true' RPG unless the characters personality has some influence on the way things pan out.

This pretty much covers it, as far as I'm concerned.

[edited by - Miserable on September 13, 2002 11:30:58 AM]

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what an RPG really is

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