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# CRPGs & CRPGs

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Hello uh...computer RPGs and Concole RPGs are in my opinion very different from each other (unless they''re a port or something) I''ve been thinking about why are the rpgs on computers so much more different then the rpgs on consoles. i''m, gonna have trouble explaining this so bare with me. I had a little thought and came up with a small list of some of the differences. im gonna put it in source tags so the formatting is correct


----------------------------------------------------------------
feature     |         Computer          |         Console
----------------------------------------------------------------
Story       |almost always something    |Found to be much more
|to do with the ''olden'' days|in depth then comp.
|not very long              |usually better
----------------------------------------------------------------
battle      | mostly real time          | mostly turn based
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character   | usually has more involved |the characters are alre
development |character building capabil |dy chosen. u can only
|ities, u get to do much    |start to ''improve''
|more customization         |their stats
----------------------------------------------------------------
iteraction  | interactivity with the    |more interaction with
|characters is a lot in this|the environment then
|and NPCs are a big part    |with chracters but NPSs
|                           |also play big roles
----------------------------------------------------------------


thats all i could really think of (for now). So basically what im trying to get at is why not join the two up. take the best points from each and put them together. there are some pretty annoying features in both id say. maybe a lot will disagree with me in that console rpgs and computer rpgs dont have so many differences but anyway, IMO i prefer the console rpgs because their like controlling a hollywood movie in a way. for me there''s just too much time spent on ''fixing up'' stuff in a computer rpg, im one of those people that like to get where they''re going as fast as possible, and now i want to take in the scenery on teh way. so heres what im thinking, we can take teh stroy element from the console rpg, the battle elements can be mixed, and we can take teh character development from the computer rpg and the interaction from both. i know there are many more points that would make an rpg, but those were the first main ones that came to mind. so do u guys also think that computer rpgs are different then console rpgs? why? how do we get the best from both worlds?

"Your friendly proggy.....Al " [Triple Buffer]|[SCRIPTaGAME]|[My Old Site]

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We make console RPGs!

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What you said about computer vs console RPG stories. Ever played Ultima underworld? You have to learn a another ''language'' as part of the story to communicate with another race! Tell that to console RPGs! Ever played Baldur''s Gate, Deus Ex, System Shock 2? These are excellent examples of amazing stories in computer RPGs.

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Most of the differences resulted from the architecture of the systems for which they were developed. For instance, computer games tend toward character development. This is because character development requires space to store the character, which implies a need for a hard disk. As the recent generation of consoles adds new features, we will probably see a convergence. However, as the AP demonstrated above, the "best" is a subjective term. If there were a clear "best" then everyone would make the same game.

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quote:

You have to learn a another ''language'' as part of the story to communicate with another race! Tell that to console RPGs!

console rpgs have done that. FFX comes to mind. anyway. i was talking in general terms. ive noticed that console rpgs are _usually_ have more of a story line then computer rpgs, but they''re also more linear then computer rpgs. which is not a good thing considering the interaction that a game is all about.

quote:

Most of the differences resulted from the architecture of the systems for which they were developed. For instance, computer games tend toward character development. This is because character development requires space to store the character, which implies a need for a hard disk.

hey thats a good point. i never thought of that.

quote:

However, as the AP demonstrated above, the "best" is a subjective term.

....I think he meant console rpgs are better then computer rpgs...

quote:

If there were a clear "best" then everyone would make the same game.

true. i was just trying to think up a decent balance between the two.

"Your friendly proggy.....Al "
[Triple Buffer]|[SCRIPTaGAME]|[My Old Site]

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A lot of people say that a set story is a bad thing, and sometimes it can be, but not all the time. A linear RPG is kind of like a book that unfolds in front of you. It''s harder to make a good linear RPG, but IMO, the really good ones blow away the non-linear ones. I''d play Chrono Trigger or Xenogears over Baldur''s Gate or Diablo any day (Don''t get me wrong though, BG is still one of my favorite games). It isn''t a matter of which one is better. They''re two completely different types of games.

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There is one thing you have to remember:

Computers usually have an audience of one, the player.

Console games are made to play on the TV... you know, the center of the household entertainment.

As a result, computer games are centered around getting the player entranced, console games are centered around getting the audience as entranced as the player. This is why most computer games don''t translate well to the console and vice versa. There are a *few* exceptions, but not many.

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quote:
Original post by omni777
A lot of people say that a set story is a bad thing, and sometimes it can be, but not all the time. A linear RPG is kind of like a book that unfolds in front of you. It''s harder to make a good linear RPG, but IMO, the really good ones blow away the non-linear ones. I''d play Chrono Trigger or Xenogears over Baldur''s Gate or Diablo any day (Don''t get me wrong though, BG is still one of my favorite games). It isn''t a matter of which one is better. They''re two completely different types of games.

I think Baldur''s Gate(1 and 2) was quite linear, you had some freedom, but not as much as there was in for instance Fallout(1 and 2). I think that it doesn''t matter whether your story is very linear, or absolutely not, there have been made some very good games for with both linear and non-linear stories. And I also don''t think console or computer RPGs are better, because I think that it all depends on what you like best, and I can enjoy both a computer and a console RPG. But I think my favourite is computer.

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Nethack is one of those games that consoles can''t ever have. It''s complex and ugly. No PS2-dude can play a game like that, but still i think its the best RPG created on console / computer.

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Almost all the reasons you listed are to do with user interaction. A mouse and keyboard are ideal for lots of commands and plenty of interactivity. With consoles your commands are very limiting so the games tend to center on gameplay and storyline in order to get people to buy their game.

So Computer (PC) RPGs tend to be more interactive, while console RPGs usually have more thought put into the storyline and simple game play (due to lack of interactivity).

FFX doesn''t really count as a new language, it is just english letters out of order ^^, the ultima series uses a completely different character set (after playing all of them you memorise the characters too, its really sad ^^)

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Drawing an array does not add power to your arguments, which I think are completely false.
I''ve always found Computer RPGs deeper, in the gameplay, and in the story-line.

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Putting you opinions down as facts does not make them anymore vaild. It is obvious that those are "opinions" and I totally disagree with and everyone them. I believe the story of Computer RPGs to be much more indepth than your typically comercial FF crap, found on such formats as consoles.

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I''d agree that Computer RPGs usually are more open-ended than console RPGs. This is an important difference. Open-ended means it''s exciting and interesting to the player. Console RPGs, OTOH, tend to have a more linear story. This allows the writers to be more creative, and it tends to bring the player to a higher emotional level.

I''ll give a comparision - the Might & Magic series vs Chrono Trigger. In MM, you don''t really give a s*** about the story, for the most part. You just play mostly to advance your character, do the quests, and progress through the more-or-less open-ended game. The excitement comes mainly from progression and character development, which is a constant process. As you fight, you gain more skill.

In CT, you are following a rational story the whole way through. It basically forces you through the story (you have to follow the path it wants, they try not to make it too obvious.) Character development is basically non-existant, besides linear, goal-based progression. Meaning, you don''t really gain anything from just doing something, but after a while, you will gain a level, and after a few levels, you will gain a new skill. So, instead of thinking "I''ll practice Skill X for a while to get better", you think "I can''t wait till I get to use Skill X" Its a different system of development.

Also, linear games are more emotional. I''ve never had a computer game bring me to the verge of tears, like when Aeris dies in FF7, or when Crono dies, or when we first see the tape of the destruction of the world by Lavos, or when Lara gets crippled. It actually pulled us in, as opposed to computer games, where I don''t actually feel like I''m part of the story, but rather an observer. Linear stories can do that, but open-ended ones can''t, or at least it is more difficult.

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quote:
Original post by omni777
A linear RPG is kind of like a book that unfolds in front of you.

Why not just read a book then, there a lots of them with stories a lot more involved and detailed than anything in any Squaresoft RPG.
quote:

It''s harder to make a good linear RPG, but IMO, the really good ones blow away the non-linear ones.

It is? I''d say it''s harder to make a good nonlinear RPG, they depend more on actual gameplay than storyline. You also need a lot more content in the game because it is nonlinear. In a linear game you know what the player will see and you just create that, in a nonlinear game you have to create tons of content that the player might see at any time. I''m sure Morrowind was more difficult to create than any FF (minus all the cutscenes, which require a lot of artists), except maybe FFXI, which is an MMORPG and nonlinear by nature.

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The reason console rpgs do not generally allow you to perform much character creation at the beginning of the game is due to the console''s inability to effectively create numbers that are "random." For a computer, the time the program is initialized is generally used as a random seed in order to make the game appear to be generating more randomness each time the game is played. However, since console''s do not have an internal clock, this is impossible. It is possible, though, to take this seed from some sort of player input (such as how long it took the player to make a menu selection).

I had seen an instance where a console RPG attempted to allow the usual dice rolling method to create your party. Unfortunately, it was quickly apparent that the random seed for the random number generator was the same every time I played the game. Whenever I created a new character and pressed the ''Reroll'' button to produce another "random" character, the same string of attribute value sets would appear.

Personally, I think the rolling up and creation of character(s) is the most interesting aspect of CRPGS, which is one of the reasons why I tend toward the computer versions, although I do play my fair share of consoles.

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Although this could have been a problem years ago, it is definitely not a problem now. Even on GBA, you can use the Merssene Twister and get random numbers. If this is still a problem now, then it''s one of tradition, not technical shortcoming.

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quote:
Original post by matt_j
Ever played Baldur''s Gate, Deus Ex, System Shock 2? These are excellent examples of amazing stories in computer RPGs.

Baldur''s Gate really didn''t have a great story compared to the likes of Breath of Fire or Grandia. And Deus Ex is a FPS, not an RPG so if you want to include FPSes Halo blows Deus Ex out of the water when it comes to story in my opinion.

Bleu Shift - www.bleushift.tk

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I think the problem we face here is try to compare two different means of storytelling that happen to share some mathematical laws. Computer RPGs would probably be better described as an anthology, or a greek poem. A collection of lesser stories about minor things, but with an over present theme. Console RPGs would be a singular story totally dedicated to a single chaacter or group of characters that have an influence on the world, while the world has an influence on them. The thing that confuses us all is the fact that a group of numbers represent the characters and the player can change those numbers with some effort. Play Dragon Warrior 7. Anthology for the first CD. Just like a computerRPG, though, not as advanced in the gameplay department.

So, where do we meet and where do we part? Themes. This is actually something that splits console rpgs into two categories. DW7 actually has no underlying theme, while FF7 and Xenogears have criticism of world oil trade and criticism of organized religion respectively. So. Tell me, where do we get themes and over/undertones in computer RPGs?

-> Will Bubel
-> Machine wash cold, tumble dry.

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It''s a good thing I am no mathematician. If I was, I would say that this is like trying to count apples and oranges.

From personal experience, the ending has a lot to do with the difference. In computer RPGs, getting to the ending is tough and may not be rewarding at all. In console RPGs, getting to the ending is the ultimate motive for the player, and hence, it is quite easy to reach (it might be time consuming, but never impossibly hard).

The emphasis on the ending usually translates into more drama in the console RPG scene, while the emphasis on extended gameplay seems to affect computer RPGs into making bizarre and interesting worlds to explore.

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