ASCII Fishtank Mini Contest!

[TwistedMatrix 122]

I''m not sure I want to participate in this contest. I have never done contest things before. But...
I think it would be cool to run a contest where every entry costs the developer like $5 to submit. That way, the winners could have a % of the pot based on what place they scored.
eg.
1st place = 50% of the pot
2nd place = 25%
3rd place = 12%
4th place = 8%
5th place = 5% (or somthing to that effect)

anyways, I wanted to know if submitters have to use c/c++. Or can they use other languages or multiple languages. (Reason being, I saw someone said somthing about getting a qbasic compiler???)
If I do anything, I will use c however. I need the practice.

-= Twisted Matrix =-

[TwistedMatrix 122]

quote:

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Original post by CGameProgrammer
It should be added that if you''re using OpenGL or Direct3D, you must remember your entry will only be valid if the characters are drawn orthogonally (parallel to the screen) and the correct size. You should run in 640x400 resolution (not 640x480) with each character being either 8x16 or 8x8, your preference (but obviously 8x8 is best). If you do this right and turn off texture filtering then it should look just like DOS.

~CGameProgrammer( );

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Haha! there is a 500k limit man. anyone who uses openGL/win32 for this contest must not be to worried about file size since it will add a few hundred Kilobytes to the executable.

HINT: Use DOS. Not openGL. Unless you can''t (Thus my "Haha!")



-= Twisted Matrix =-

[Michalson 1657]

quote:

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Original post by TwistedMatrix
anyways, I wanted to know if submitters have to use c/c++. Or can they use other languages or multiple languages. (Reason being, I saw someone said somthing about getting a qbasic compiler???)
If I do anything, I will use c however. I need the practice.

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Any language is ok so long as your executable will run under Windows (which means DOS executables are ok so long as they don''t do anything crazy)

[CGameProgrammer 640]

quote:

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Haha! there is a 500k limit man

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Haha HA! There is a 500kb limit on the ZIP file size, not the executable. You can easily compress it to 500kb.

~CGameProgrammer( );

[TwistedMatrix 122]

I think the judges (whoever they are) should give people bonus points for using true dos vga programming. It would encourage people to do somthing the right way
just my 2 cents.

-= Twisted Matrix =-

[Thunder_Hawk 314]

quote:

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Original post by TwistedMatrix
Haha! there is a 500k limit man. anyone who uses openGL/win32 for this contest must not be to worried about file size since it will add a few hundred Kilobytes to the executable.

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Hmmm...I only seem to have maybe 50-65kb max tacked on to use OpenGL/win32...maybe its just my secret formula

[smart_idiot 1298]

My first program was only about 4k upx''d, although I''m sure if Michalson tried really hard, he could have done the same thing in a hundred bytes or so.

[skjinedmjeet 428]

My ASCII emulator compiles down to about 80k...

Hmm... but with OGL you can have a faster screen update and....well... that''s better.

Plus, I can''t seem to get the 80x50 mode using dos interrupts. Although that''s probably just my card.

[Andrew Nguyen 150]

So, who are the judges?

[DrunkenHyena 805]

quote:

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Original post by TwistedMatrix
Haha! there is a 500k limit man. anyone who uses openGL/win32 for this contest must not be to worried about file size since it will add a few hundred Kilobytes to the executable.

HINT: Use DOS. Not openGL. Unless you can''t (Thus my "Haha!")

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The Northern Dragons (demo group) did a 4K demo using OpenGL, so 500k is HUGE! I guess you''re just not doing it right.



Stay Casual,

Ken
Drunken Hyena

[TwistedMatrix 122]

quote:

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[The Northern Dragons (demo group) did a 4K demo using OpenGL, so 500k is HUGE! I guess you''re just not doing it right.

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I was kina just exxagetating about the OpenGL thing. I havent really tested to see how much it will add to you exe size. I just dont see the point of using openGL to emulate a screen mode that has been availible on computers for the last 25 years.

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Plus, I can''t seem to get the 80x50 mode using dos interrupts. Although that''s probably just my card.

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I dont beleive you can do it alone with interrupts since 80x50 is a tweeked 3h. look up a map of the BIOS and VGA registers.

-= Twisted Matrix =-

[Michalson 1657]

This might not be the best way to set 80x50 text mode is DOS, but anyway...

MOV     AX,1202  ; Ensure 400 lines of resolution (mostly redundent with todays machines)
MOV     BL,30
INT     10

MOV     AX,0003  ; Set to textmode 3
INT     10

MOV     BP,031D  ; Change to 8x8 characters
MOV     AX,1110
MOV     BX,0800
MOV     CX,000A
MOV     DX,0000
INT     10
 

You can then find the raw character data at memory location: B800:0000. The data is stored as 2 byte records. The first byte is the ASCII character, the 2 second byte is the color information (foreground is the least signifigant 4 bits, background next 3, blink is in the highest bit).

[Rian 121]

quote:

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Original post by CWizard
As you seem to have some influence on Dave, you could perhaps convince him to hack in a personal post icon and/or a little nice colored text beside his (or her, if fel is joining ) handle for the winner.

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I love this idea. I''d enter any contest if it would mean I get a cool little logo in my posts! How about a ribbon or something that the winner can link to in his signature? It would be such a blast to have a row of little icons for every contest you''ve won (or placed in)...

[Michalson 1657]

quote:

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Original post by Rian
I love this idea. I''d enter any contest if it would mean I get a cool little logo in my posts! How about a ribbon or something that the winner can link to in his signature? It would be such a blast to have a row of little icons for every contest you''ve won (or placed in)...

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This sounds like a good idea. While the post icon thing is not really do-able (custom post icons are one of the few "premium" options we''ve come up with, and it would really suck for someone to go to all the trouble of making a winning entry and then have someone else shell out a few bucks to buy the same thing), however a list of little medals/awards would be good (each medal would display a description when you moved the mouse over it, like "1st place Ascii Fish Contest" and clicking it would link you to that contests page). I''ll have to see how well this first (and maybe a second) contests goes before I can convince Dave to add the Mini-Contests as a standard feature of Gamedev.

BTW, as far as regular mini-contests (say 1 every 2 months) and premium membership go, how would you guys feel if these contests where made part of the "premium" membership, that is you need to be a paid member to enter these frequent contests (if it was a payed feature we would likely be getting real prizes in addition to some fancy medals to go beside your username)

[Rian 121]

quote:

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Original post by Michalson
BTW, as far as regular mini-contests (say 1 every 2 months) and premium membership go, how would you guys feel if these contests where made part of the "premium" membership, that is you need to be a paid member to enter these frequent contests (if it was a payed feature we would likely be getting real prizes in addition to some fancy medals to go beside your username)

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I think an entry fee would be a better idea. Say, $5 to be considered by the judges. Then, prizes could depend on how many people entered and contributed to the pot. The problem lies in payment: I dont have a credit card, so does that mean i cant enter?

[smart_idiot 1298]

I''m not doing it if I have to pay, I''m okay with paying nothing and getting nothing. Besides, it''s supposed to be fun, you don''t need a prize as an incentive to have fun.

[BoggyB 122]

I actually don''t mind too much if some parts of sites you have to pay for, as long as it''s done sensibly. Paying to enter the contensts is a good idea, but it could be taken further by making it free to send a program in but you have to pay to get it considered by the judges. Other options (for prizes) is giving the winner a period of free membership (just whoever came 1st or the top 3 entries).

I might send an entry in myself. I''ll have to go and dig out my copy of QiuckBasic 4.5 first (I assume you''re not going to require entries to run fine on Windows NT). Simple ASCII animation is rather easy in that.

It''s tempting to use OpenGL, but you said include all libs and you can''t compress a VB program with all the DLLs to 500k. You can just about fit it on a floppy disk if your lucky, but the only way to get it in under 500k is to drop all the runtimes.

Just one question: where do we send the entries to? I haven''t spotted a link or anything, but maybe I just missed it. Thanks.

--Thomas McCorkell

Just what is Karma? Is it a way to rate people? A way of assigning privilege levels? Or is karma just an anti-spam system?

[TwistedMatrix 122]

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Original post by smart_idiot
I''m not doing it if I have to pay, I''m okay with paying nothing and getting nothing.

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Well, to ellaborate a bit on my idea:

Anyone could participate the contest whether they want to pay the admission fee or not. However, to be eligeble for the pot prizes, the person would have to send N dollars and admission indormation (name, email, address, ect) to the contest leader. The entire idea supports itself (eg. the only thing the contest leader has to do is manage the incoming/outgoing money and keep track of the submittants info. but thats a small price to pay)

Of course, this contest is too far along to do that now, but its a good idea for future contests.

quote:

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Besides, it''s supposed to be fun, you don''t need a prize as an incentive to have fun.

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I couldn''t agree more. but the idea of the price is to further encourage the competitive nature of the contest Thus improving community interaction (and other stuff like that)

Its a good idea i think. but then its my idea so im probly a bit bias.

-= Twisted Matrix =-

[TwistedMatrix 122]

quote:

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You may create a 32bit Windows console application, a 16bit DOS application using mode 3, or you may create a pixel perfect emulation of either mode using your preferred graphical API.

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Yikes, I just noticed that you didnt say 32bit DOS applications are aloud. I have already written (300+) lines of VERY unportable DJGPP code (unavoidable).
Anyways, I dont have a 16bit dos compiler and I dont want to restart my submission or use 3h emulation so is 32bit DOS ok?

PS> Allowing windows submittiants full RAM acess and not DOS
submittiants seems a little unfair anyway, wouldn't you say? Sure there is always xms and ems, but they are slow, tedious to program, and definitly not supported anymore.

[edited by - TwistedMatrix on October 29, 2002 3:24:30 AM]

[Michalson 1657]

quote:

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Original post by TwistedMatrix
Yikes, I just noticed that you didnt say 32bit DOS applications are aloud. I have already written (300+) lines of VERY unportable DJGPP code (unavoidable).
Anyways, I dont have a 16bit dos compiler and I dont want to restart my submission or use 3h emulation so is 32bit DOS ok?

PS> Allowing windows submittiants full RAM acess and not DOS
submittiants seems a little unfair anyway, wouldn''t you say? Sure there is always xms and ems, but they are slow, tedious to program, and definitly not supported anymore.

[edited by - TwistedMatrix on October 29, 2002 3:24:30 AM]

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32Bit (protected mode) DOS entries will be allowed so long as they run under Windows. As for the memory thing, I guess it''s really tough luck. The fact is nothing in DOS is really supported anymore, and I simply made DOS apps (so long as they can run properly under Windows) legal for the people who feel more comfortable doing text graphics with a DOS compiler. (And to be honest I don''t see what you need so much memory for, 640K is more than enough for simulating fish, and xms memory access is more than fast enough, especially on todays machines).

[TwistedMatrix 122]

ok I will make sure It runs correctly on Win32. tnks.

>> The fact is nothing in DOS is really supported anymore
not true! Just last night i saw a DOS 6.22 book that had a copyright date of 2001. beleive me, i was as suprised as you must be.

>> 640K is more than enough for simulating fish, and xms memory >> access is more than fast enough, especially on todays machines
Well [italic]I[/italic] dont need that much memmory :o, but somone else might (It all really depends on howmuch work you want to give the processor and how much data you want to keep track of)

speaking of which, what are the judges machine specs?

-= Twisted Matrix =-

[Michalson 1657]

quote:

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Original post by TwistedMatrix
ok I will make sure It runs correctly on Win32. tnks.

>> The fact is nothing in DOS is really supported anymore
not true! Just last night i saw a DOS 6.22 book that had a copyright date of 2001. beleive me, i was as suprised as you must be.

>> 640K is more than enough for simulating fish, and xms memory >> access is more than fast enough, especially on todays machines
Well [italic]I[/italic] dont need that much memmory :o, but somone else might (It all really depends on howmuch work you want to give the processor and how much data you want to keep track of)

speaking of which, what are the judges machine specs?

-= Twisted Matrix =-

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Clarification

The minimum spec is a PII300, 64MB, Windows 9X with a 4MB non-3D accelerated video card (though you can take a gamble that all the judges will have 3D acceleration).

[CGameProgrammer 640]

I think one idea regarding contests and premium members is to allow anyone into the contest, but to rank the free and premium members separately. The premium members get prizes, the free members get nothing. Both get little medals near their names. Otherwise it makes it look like premium members are better than free ones.

~CGameProgrammer( );

[BoggyB 122]

quote:

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Original post by CGameProgrammer
I think one idea regarding contests and premium members is to allow anyone into the contest, but to rank the free and premium members separately. The premium members get prizes, the free members get nothing. Both get little medals near their names.

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That''s probably the best way to go, but only if you need to pay to view parts of the site. It wouldn''t really work as well if it was just for competitions.

By the way, the specs should easily be enough for a simple ASCII fish tank simulation. No 3D acceleration is okay, unless you want to use the UT2003 engine or something daft like that. To give some of the people with really high-spec machines an idea of what will run, a 2D DirectX program running at 640x480 with what... 16 colour graphics? will work fine on a P133 . A PII300 will have no problems.

I have a reasonably good life simulator (for basic organisms) written for DOS (admittedly using 320x240 graphics, so it wouldn''t be eligible for this competition) which runs fine on an old Dell PC (DOS 6.2, basic onboard graphics (320x240x4), 4Mb memory, 25Mhz processor). I think that with the supplied spec nobody will run into problems unless they try to do something really fancy, in which case they should try a different contest.

As it is, I will be using QB4.5 and just using the LOCATE and PRINT commands to do the graphics. No multithreading, no graphics API, just good old DOS (and I can guarantee my program to be 100% bug-free, too, which you can''t do if you use a lib which has bugs in).

--Thomas McCorkell

Just what is Karma? Is it a way to rate people? A way of assigning privilege levels? Or is karma just an anti-spam system?

[TwistedMatrix 122]

quote:

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As it is, I will be using QB4.5 and just using the LOCATE and PRINT commands to do the graphics. No multithreading, no graphics API, just good old DOS (and I can guarantee my program to be 100% bug-free, too, which you can''t do if you use a lib which has bugs in).

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urm? If you are compiling your program with BC.exe, your program will likely already have bugs. might want to try the compiler/linker from VBDOS. syntax is the same, but less buggy than the qb45 compiler.

PS> using LOCATE and PRINT, your video will have to be updated 2000 to 4000 (if using 80x50) times a loop. I imagine that will be a problem for you. Then again, mabey not.

-= Twisted Matrix =-