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How is ATI tracking whether or not this ad is working? Do they even care? This is what puzzles me the most. The only thing that happens when you click the ad is you are getting sent to www.ati.com -- not some specialized "Welcome to ATI, GameDev users" page -- and I'm sure past that they don't track to see if you actually bought a product from them. The only thing I can think of is that they track the HTTP_REFER(R?)ER browser variable although in some browsers you can turn off sending this variable.

Ads work when there is motivation to buy. And as this ad gives us no extra motivation, it should just be a plain banner ad like the rest we're used to seeing. It's poor judgment on ATI's part to have designed a very intrusive, in-your-face ad without some sort of special promotional pricing. Even if it was only $50 discount or so, that would motivate me to buy from them vs. a pricewatch or pricegrabber type of place. I'd use Mozilla if it weren't for the fact that they are depending on a certain # of views before the end of November. Mypoic Rhino, how are we doing so far with the # of hits? Are we on target or do I need to set up a Scheduler task for my 5 PC's to visit the main site once a minute? [edited by - SilentReaper on October 23, 2002 9:46:09 AM] 0 #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites I want to see this ad!! This threads are annoying me, because it doesn''t show up at all. I really do not know why, but I never saw this ad. Is this error I always get with this (Error in line 4, char 5)?? Or is it that it doesn''t show up if you''re using an ATI card?? 0 #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites quote: Original post by LordLethis I want to see this ad!! This threads are annoying me, because it doesn''t show up at all. Go check out the other 20 threads on this and check out the screenshots people took. 0 #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites I just got bombarded with a new one; lasts 20 seconds and has no X on it, so I can''t stop it. It spits goo-balls over the screen from what I assume is a gun; it''s slow, and its even bigger than the first one. On top of all of that, when it was completed, the old one played right after it! That''s it, time to disable flash. 0 #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites ok. after reading about this topic a few times over here. and now seeing this official announcement thing. im starting to get a little curious.... well... WHERE THE HECK IS THIS ADD???? I WANT to see it ??? are you talking about that long white strip that dosnt load up on the side of the forum? or is there something else im missing? "I know sometimes I ask stupid questions...but i mean well " [Triple Buffer-My home]|[SCRIPTaGAME]|[My Old Site] 0 #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites quote: Original post by alfmga WHERE THE HECK IS THIS ADD???? I WANT to see it ??? come over to my house; I get it EVERY SINGLE time I''m not inside a thread page. 0 #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites This site has helped me imeasurably with my game development skills, and this is a way that i can give some back=) Raymond Jacobs, Profesional Web Applications Developer, Weekend Game Developer, www.EtherealDarkness.com 0 #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites For the people who were a bit fearfull of Memberships: quote: As I''ve said before, if we go that route, you will not have to start paying for things you get now for free (with the possible exception of hosting and bandwidth via the GDShowcase). It''s from the first post. Articles and forum access will remain free. The only thing that is free now, and might become membership-only, is the Showcase. Probably because it eats quite a bit of bandwidth. But not everyone uses that Showcase either. Paid Membership would simply give you the warm fuzzy feeling of knowing that you are helping GameDev.net to survive ^_^ (and I''ve heard from some (un)reliable sources that the forum software might get fun little extra options that are unlocked with a membership ) 0 #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites "how to get rid of annoying ads for dummies" - by eldee 1.) stop whining and dry your tears. 2.) open your browser 3.) type in ''www.mozilla.org'' (or click here) 4.) download and install mozilla 5.) open mozilla 6.) go to edit>preference and expand the ''advanced'' tab 7.) go to scripts and plugins and uncheck the box that says "allow sites to open unrequested pages" 8.) live happily ever after 9.)[optional] torch your IE installation and dance naked around your computer chair. the end. -eldee ;another space monkey; [ Forced Evolution Studios ] Do NOT let Dr. Mario touch your genitals. He is not a real doctor! 0 #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites First, I very much dislike advertisements like that. Second, of what I understand, the fuzz is not so much about critizing GameDev or their actions, nor very much about bashing ATI, but that people who are against this type of intrusive ads in principle are expressing their feelings about where the world is coming to, and in some desperate notion hope that God will hear them and restore earth to normal order. I usually pay more attention to the content of banners than the content of popups and overlays etc (in my opinion "spam" ads). When I see a "spam" ad, I will instinctivly ignore it and get rid of it as fast as I can. Normal banners, I do usually glance at, to see what they are about; I don't want to know what "spam" ads are about. I think ATI/GameDev could have used the user base here much more, if they would have considered more the mentality of the good ol' regular GameDev visitor. (Warning: now daring my undefined marketing skills! ) An example would be to write a Featured Article about Radeon cards and putting it on the front page (I always look there to see if there is any new interesting article), going in depths about its features, shaders, gpu, circuitry, coolings, the creation process, and all other tech things that we all are soft for. This would be much better: - Not annoying; wouldn't incite hatred towards them (ATI). - I would gladly, without hesitation, sit down and spend 15, 30 or 60 minutes reading about ATI/Radeon (especially if it contains diagrams of the board etc), rather than spending a few minutes every day closing that "thing". - You would actually learn something about the product advertised. If it's a good product, people like us are more likely to understand that. - We would actually be glad to see it coming - If there would be a frequent normal banner around, we wouldn't forget about the article, and the banners would remind us what we read about. EDIT: grammars and speling --------------------------------------------- "VB is a disease" [edited by - CWizard on October 23, 2002 12:09:44 PM] 0 #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites Thats a good idea in theory, but the whole point of internet advertising, and advertising in general is not to give the target the option to view the advert, but to foce it upon them. Moaning about it is all well and good, and I appreciate (and I''m sure ATI appreciate) that this is not fun for the end user. Problem is theres no such thing as free. Hosting must be paid for, and a successful site like GameDev.net is going to require a good deal of money to keep running. If its a choice between a 10 second overlay add and actually dipping into my pocket I know which one I''ll choose. Let ATI et al pay for your web, its not THAT much of an inconvenience.... Dave 0 #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites CWizard is a wise old man. Listen to him 0 #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites Three separate reviews from sites that are generally unbiased: http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/02q3/020819/index.html http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1683 http://www.sharkyextreme.com/hardware/videocards/article.php/1449721 EDIT: "unbiased" when it comes to video cards [edited by - SilentReaper on October 23, 2002 12:40:13 PM] 0 #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites Uhm... all three of those sites have been heavily biased in the past. Tom used to be an Intel bitch until he could no longer deny that the athlon knocked intels socks off Anand was always an AMD fanboy Sharky has always been an intel fanboy. 0 #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites If extreme advertising is the only way to keep sites like GDNet free, I personally think that paid membership sites are going to be a lot more common. Most web users probably wouldn''t stop visiting thier favourite site just because of an annoying ad, but what happens when the ads become so intrusive that people start finding ways to disable them? (Getting rid of this green thing is dead simple, see previous threads). Nobody ever bothers to disable ordinary banners. Sites make less and less money on advertising because web users ignore banners. So ads constantly need to get bigger and louder to be noticed. So people try to get rid of them. If this continues, won''t the ad funding model break down anyway? "Oh no, not again" - Agrajag 0 #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites I understand Dave's position. After all money does make the world go round. And in order to run a "free" site the money needs to come from somewhere. However I do not feel as though "flash ads" do anything for the community. Gamedev.net already has some type of relationship with amazon.com for books, and there are other types of relationships like this that will help make gamedev.net some money as well as provide a service to the gamedev.net community. Such as software/hardware listings from sites like pricegrabber.com. And although I'd love to help gamedev.net get the amount of views they need for this ad I can not help but feel that if this campaign succeeds we can expect to see more and more of these types of ads on the site. I've been "tricked" into going to ATI's website roughly 5 or so times since the ad started and quite frankly I'm fed up with it. Because of the ads nature I feel as though I'm being forced into blocking it, and I suspect that many others feel the same. I realize that this doesn't help gamedev.net fill it's commitment to ATI. However there has also been a decrease in the number of articles and news updates gamedev.net has been receiving over the past year or so. It seems rather foolish to expect the users to put up with a number of these flash ads for the privilege of viewing the latest GD Lounge forum post by NES8BIT. Then subject them once again to the ad as they switch to a more productive forum. I realize the gamedev.net staff works very hard to provide this service to the community. And the community also works very hard to provide gamedev.net with its content. If you start assaulting the community with these flash ads the community is going to respond by either blocking the ads or they are going to spend less time on the site, browsing the forums, viewing the articles, submitting news items, and possibly submitting articles to gamedev.net. Which means gamedev may have the ability to pay for it's bandwidth and hosting for quite some time, but what good does that do if the staff has to go out fishing for article submissions, news posts and then generate forum activity because the community is spending less and less time providing the site with these items? Personally I could with stand this ad for 2 months if there was an end of these types of ads in sight. However I seriously doubt that at the end of these 2 months we will see an end of these ads. And as far as I'm concerned that's just not a good thing for gamedev.net or the community. As for me I've blocked all the ads on the gamedev.net site on my home machine and I will be spending less time here during the day because of this ad. I'm truly sorry that I can not help gamedev.net but as the community was reminded when this ad appeared on the site, we really don't have much of a choice in the matter do we? [edited by - evaclear on October 23, 2002 3:03:27 PM] 0 #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites quote: Original post by Iolo I agree with AP above...this stunt only drives more nails into the uber-marketing team that is ATI. Don''t ever forget the Daikatana Rule of Advertisement: The more we hype the product, the more we should be wary of it. Seriously, kudos to Gamedev for explaining the need for this ad, and kudos for people here keeping an open mind (and knowing exactly WHERE to place any blame)..yes it IS annoying and infuriating to sit through each time I go to gamedev, but it IS a small price to pay for viewing the best game development content on the net bar none. I wonder if we can find a link to a page anywhere within ATI that shows statistical reports on clickable ads vs. sales figures??... hm.. following the daikatan rule, the only one we should boykott is nvidia. after seeing ati has a card they started their hype of nv30, cineFX and all that stuff, spending tons of dollars just for hyping some stuff that doesn''t exist yet and is not profen to be good, and future prooven.. ati''s card _is_ great, and yet there, and you should have it. i have it and its amazing i don''t see any point why this ad is annoying. i don''t bother about ad actually, for me, its fun, relaxing time. most the movies, or series, or what evers on tv have breaks everywhere for ad, radio has ad everywhere, there is subjective ad (take james bond:D), and much much more.. why not on webpages? and i have no stress.. the ad pops up after some seconds, slowly. before these seconds are over i clicked the link i want.. all the ones bitching on this ad simply suck. it''s an ad => we have to bitch it.. its an ati ad => we have to bitch it even more.. if you think you want to be cool, not following the hype, then start learning how the real world works. you''ll like it. less hype than you think. and less hype than the "cool scene we are here in gamedev" some times... "take a look around" - limp bizkit www.google.com 0 #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites Hey guys, here in argentina, the hosting costs are 4 times cheaper than in USA... The service is very good. And I don't really know if they are controling bandwidth cause sites here dont have too many concurrence. Did I mention it? 4 pesos = 1 Dollar. We had relation 1 peso = 1 dolar, now we devaluated the prices will remain, so if hosting a site like this costed usd3000 now it cost usd 833,3^. This is pretty bad to me, but pretty good for people who earn DOLLARS. This is a good option for reducing cost, and even you could get some extra money with this discusting mocus you are splatin over here... [edited by - xaxa on October 23, 2002 2:13:06 PM] 0 #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites First, let me say that I''m really happy that you were able to find another source of revenue to keep the site up and running. I don''t mind plowing through a few ads if it means the continued existence of GDnet. At the same time though, seeing ATI advertise like this makes me happy that I bought a GeForce 4 instead of the Radeon.. Will 0 #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites WEll I''ve switched to mozilla and they slime ads are gone... Yea. Check out www.openoffice.org for more free software not made by Microsoft. ATI is doing something very wrong here. They are annoying the people they want to advertise to. I''m hearing people saying they will only buy nVidia now. Personally these ads don''t affect me in any way, I have a Radeon 8500, and I''m happy with it. I''ve switch to mozilla (mostly out of curiosity) and the ads really don''t affect me anymore. But I gotta think getting your potential buyers angry is not a good plan. Not bashing the idea of advertising, just wondering if their advertising is working as they expected. 0 #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites So when will the madness stop? 0 #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites Well, I just burned my copies of Mozilla and Opera. Only Internet Explorer for me now. 0 #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites The goo-gun ad now plays over the dripping slime one! ARGH! And there ain''t any X''s to click now! Such things make Ed mad. 0 #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites quote: Original post by davepermen all the ones bitching on this ad simply suck. it''s an ad => we have to bitch it.. its an ati ad => we have to bitch it even more.. You obviously haven''t even read why people bitch on the ad. 0 #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites quote: Original post by wild_pointer As per impressions, does closing the add before it''s fully opened count? Do multiple impressions from the same IP during the same session count, or from different sessions? I''m honestly not exactly sure how they count them, but I know that most ad servers detect excessive hits from a single IP over a short time span, and discount all of them. quote: Original post by Bas Paap Anyway, I have a question here: Is clicking the ''X'' on the add considered a view, or circumventing it? I''m not annoyed enough with the ad to such an extent that I''d disable flash, but I do get rid of it as fast as I can (basically, because it disables you from further browsing the site). If the ad comes up at all, it''s counted. quote: Original post by beoch Is there a reason why it needs to be displayed on every page? To deliver the contracted number of impressions, the banner needs to show around 16,000 times a day. Initially, I just had it on the main page, and in the featured articles, and we were only doing 3,500 impressions a day, so I had no choice but to put it on other high traffic pages. quote: Original post by outRider Personally I would pay to view this site... or perhaps I should say I WOULD HAVE paid, because I''ve noticed content drying up a little. Obviously contributions aren''t at your control, but if you start charging for the site like many people want would it get better? The forum is great IF you have questions (God knows I''ve asked my share), but for really expanding your knowledge nothing beats an interesting article that teaches you something, that''s why I drop by anyway. The user base would probably drop if you charged, and I don''t think that would help get you any more articles. quote: Original post by CpMan On the subject of content.....yeah it does seem that articles and such are coming in a little slower. As soon as I can find time to finish my particle engine article and clean up the associated source and editor, you have it. Actually, we get plenty of contributions. I probably have over 50 articles queued right now, but haven''t had enough time to review and post them much lately. I''m working on getting some help, but we should be back to 3-4 articles per week very soon now. quote: Original post by Anonymous Poster If I were a member of the GDNEt staff I would get back to ATI on the complaints issue about the ad. Since now you have proof of your point on how disliked it is. Maybe they would see things differently then. If not then it is not listening to the flood of complaints given to you. I have full understanding for the need of money for a site like this and I am not asking you to remove the ad, I am asking you to ask ATI to at least change it. I think Adam sent an email to them yesterday. I''m not sure if anything will come of it, but we''ll at least let them know that some people find it very annoying. quote: Original post by granat I don''t think you have to shut down access for non-members. All you need to do is to put some sort of symbol next to the names of members. This will make them feel ELITE, and they will gladly pay. I don''t need anything to pay. Just make it VERY easy to pay using my VISA and I will donate something every month (no paypal please). quote: Original post by Taulin Gamedev could do that "membership = no advertisements" thingy some sites do (not saying which ones though..*cough*) If Gamedev gets the search feature working again, I would be willing give about$5/month or so. I don''t spend a lot of time here (VS an MMORPG), but I don''t have to because the information (and making moderators angry) is so good!
quote:
Original post by Airo
I''m afraid that with the paid membership the new articles that come out are not free to view anymore.

As stated in my original post and repeated by Ronin_54, we have no plans to block access to areas that are currently free. And yes, I think that initially, membership would just include something indicating you''re a GDNet supporter, some minor features, and possibly ad blockage, and then it could expand from there. I say "possibly" because I think a more viable option would be to block out all bulk ads, popups, and out-of-banner ads, but keep standard banners with ads targeted at game developers. That way, you wouldn''t have to deal with in-your-face ads, the ads you see would be much more likely to interest you, and I think advertisers would be much more interested in reaching a select group.

Btw, we obviously haven''t settled on a price yet, but we want it to be fairly cheap - like around the cost of a magazine subscription. Also, we''ll provide as many means of payment as possible.
quote:
Original post by SilentReaper
How is ATI tracking whether or not this ad is working? Do they even care?
The ads are all served through an ad server which keeps track of the number of impressions and clicks. And yes, they care.
quote:
Original post by CWizard
I think ATI/GameDev could have used the user base here much more, if they would have considered more the mentality of the good ol'' regular GameDev visitor. (Warning: now daring my undefined marketing skills! )

You know, Adam and I spend a great deal of time discussing the unique things that we offer to potential advertisers, as well as creative ways in which they can advertise their product here. When an advertiser asks for a proposal, we provide a list of these things, custom tailored to their product. So far, they''ve all pretty much gone with typical advertising. Possibly because usually, it''s not the company itself that decides what to use, but rather, and ad agency, who is likely to use forms of advertising they''re already familiar with.
quote:
Original post by LNK2001
If this continues, won''t the ad funding model break down anyway?

Yes, which is why we''re agressively exploring other options.
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