quote:Original post by Akura

1st, someone that sues a microwave company for not puttin in the manual not to put live animals inside a microwave and wins... DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH?!?!?
someon broke your finger nail ? court with them ! its the practise over there k ? its the truth !

I will agree with you on one point - US courts often do seem fairly stupid from the point of view of an outsider.

quote:ever heard of OEM ? u put it in a new computer and its half the price u dont want it? u dont buy it, simple, then u want to buy it later, face teh consequences and pay more ! its not only with windows, its with almost every hardware k?

"Face the consequences"? I think that whole phrase sums it up. If I want to buy a stereo which plays most CDs, I have a choice. If I want to buy a car which runs on most roads, I have a choice. If I want to buy a computer which runs most software... ''face the consequences''. Nice.

People need computers in this day and age. Accessories should be optional and chosen by the buyer, not mandatory and forced upon the vendor (and hence the buyer).

As for "it''s with almost every hardware", what are you trying to say?

quote:lets see, windows comes with IE, but netscape works with windows, so if anyone wants to use netscape nothing stops them does it ?

Well actually, check the part in the Findings Of Fact which shows that MS deliberately tried to make Netscape run worse on Windows. Not to mention mountains of circumstantial evidence which shows that Netscape runs more stably without IE installed.

quote:if i make a car and supply my own radios for free, does it take the customer the option of buying the new blackpunt or sony or whatever radio ? no, it gives him the choice of something that is free and decent to something that it isnt or has to be bought separatly.

I could remove your free radio from my new car and replace it in under an hour. Removing Internet Explorer from windows is Not Allowed, apparently! That is the problem. As I stated above, I don''t mind IE coming free on the Windows CD. Although some would say this is still illegal bundling, I don''t think it matters as long as (a) There is no condition to be forced to install it, and (b) Vendors do not -have- to have it preinstalled on their systems in order to sell Windows.

quote:Original post by Akura

all blame MS and keep using it !

Only cos my hands are tied.

quote:
i like windows, i like ie, MS offers ie free, now i have to buy it cause ppl that are loosing money cause have inferior products are afraid ?

Again, if Netscape was so inferior, why did MS have to turn IE into a lossmaking product in order to kill it?

quote:by the order of ideas.. huumm i bought my sblive and it came with unreal, that means ill not by halflife or quake 3 ? should unreal be separeted from sblive cause valve and id are afraid they will loose money ?

Silly comparison. Firstly, Creative Labs make the SBLive, Epic/GT make Unreal. 2 different companies. Whereas Microsoft is one company, levering its success in one area to force success in another where it was not necessarily warranted through merit. Secondly, the last I checked, I didn''t actually require Unreal to run all my other software (although UnrealScript is certainly versatile ) Not to mention that there are many other sound cards on the market which iD or Valve can offer their games to. Thirdly, giving away games with sound cards is beneficial to the user: forcing them to integrate a buggy web-browser into their OS kernel is not beneficial (again, see findings of fact for reports on stability, memory use, etc). Fourthly, with every sound-card bundle I have ever seen, installing the games was optional. MS went out of their way to ensure that installing IE was mandatory.

It''s quite sad how public opinion seems to be swinging back behind Microsoft, mainly because they all seem to feel sorry for this ''great business'' being punished by ''vindictive rivals'' and an ''interfering government''. But just because the public may not -know- they''re being screwed, doesn''t mean they are not. The findings of fact is a lengthy and boring document, but I doubt anyone who read it all could still support Microsoft.

I worked for a web design company for over a year, and they had to market their webpages for both IE and Netscape, and this is no lie... the developers HATED netscape with a passion, they hated version 3, 4, etc... half the time the HTML (and this is just standard html) would look different enough on both versions to warrant a re-write to accomodate netscape. Now you could say, well if Netscape were the browser of choice, they''d have hated IE, and pehraps you''re correct... but the fact of the matter is that it was not the browser of choice, neither by the company nor by 90% of the clients they represented... Secondly, on just about every PC we used IE 5.0 and Netscape, we found that netscape crashed at least twice as much as IE... there are some configurations in which IE does tend to crash more, but I haven''t seen many of those, although I''m sure they exist. (Windows 98 comes to mind for me

On the personal side, I tried out netscape under freebsd (hey I like unix enough to warrant learning it) and I have to say it was the most convoluted(sp?) browser I''ve ever used, configuring it was a total mess and setting up the email client with it was a horrid experience... I''m not the average Joe Blow when it comes to software or software development, so it wasn''t because I was too illiterate to set it up, it was just a damned mess. Personally, I think netscape is just an inferior product, I dont agree with Micorsoft''s marketing practices (the buying out of companies who are forging ahead on their own, etc...) and I think the 9x series of OSes are utter crap... but I find most of their other software (access 2000 excluded) to be quite good... DirectX is great, it''s a little obfuscated... ok, more than a little, it''s a mess But I find once you get past the bullshit and get into the guts of it, it''s quite good... as far as I know OpenGL has been around for a lot longer in 1 form or another, so I would expect it to be more refined, regardless of version #''s (I hate people who use that as an excuse) Correct me if I''m wrong, but wasn''t OpenGL written for/by SGI, who''s only business is graphics? If indeed I am correct, then I would expect OpenGL to be amazing... but yet, I dont find it any better (performance wise that is) than Direct3D, as for a learning curve, OpenGL has the be the greatest 3D API on the planet, it''s a joke to learn it... but, alas, I like the integration of Direct3D with it''s other counterpart DirectDraw, and I have to say, I get more satisfaction out of using Direct3D (and getting something written with it I dont know why, but I like to tear the guts out of things I think the whole OpenGL vs Direct3D thing should just shut the fuck up (pardon) and go on about writing 3D crap, instead of wasting your time replying to flames like these... oh and don''t point out the irony of arguing and wasting time to decry arguing wasting time, I''m well aware of it (Side Show Bob eat your heart out

Just my two cents worth.
I have used both Netscape and Internet Explorer products since version 4 of each.
I liked the interface of Netscape 4 then, and as for performance wise, both are the same imo, except that Netscape has a sudden ''jerk'' when loading applets. And then I followed IE5, NS4.7, and then, being a web developer, got totally disgusted by the ''STANDARDS'' Netscape supports. IE adheres more to the ''STANDARDS'' than NS. Unconvinced? Hop on down to W3C and check the css tags. Tell me how many NS supports, and how IE supports.

And then I tried NS6. I have to say, It rocks compared to IE5. It would have been better if it doesn''t crash so often. I can almost redo the ''crash'' steps now.
As for IE, it''s been a long time since I crash it... hmmm.
Maybe NS6 release will be much better. Shrug


And for products. What''s the prefered Image tool? Photoshop? Paintshop Pro? I believe those are non-MS.
Web authoring? Dreamweaver blows it all I believe. C/C++ Compiler and IDE? Borland, code warrior and others are hard against VC++. In fact, a lot seem to prefer Borland or code warrior. Even IBM compiler at times.
Point? If NS is an excellent product, people would still flock to purchase it. *note*, purchase, not download. And the facts are rather there. NS is at most on par with IE. Even with the newer version, which imo I really liked the interface, they are still on par with functionality.(never explored much). Sure, blame MS for other companies not innovating. And then look at Macromedia, Adobe, and tell me other companies are not innovating.