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cosa-nostra

RPG

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Hey Well i have decided to make a online rpg similar to uo (very original ), well try and plan everything out for it. But there is a problem i cant think of what would be the best lay out for it. With it being a online rpg obviously with the character create there is the option of which race you can decide on etc.But im not sure what to do after that i have thought about either having a class and no skills outside of the class which you choose can be learnt i.e for mages class they will have magic and magic resist etc. But i thought that may become boring with there not being enough variety. But i think if you can go all out and are able to lean every skill like UO that would be unrealistic and means the best character would win not the one with the best skill in a sense. Im just wondering what your thoughts on this are and what suggestions you have whether there is a set amount of skills that you can learn etc..any help would be much appreciated thanks.

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Yeah. I would suggest scrapping the idea and coming up with something more original. But I guess there are lots of folks who actually would pay money for a clone of an existing game...

If you really want my thoughts on CRPG design: Do something, ANYTHING, to get away from the standard magic/combat system. I find it incredibly boring to sit there with an enemy and just take turns whacking/casting spells at each other until one of us dies. So I''d say that you probably should avoid using existing games as a model and instead think of the sort of experience that you want a player to have, and design it around THAT. i.e. if you want combat to be scaryier, you don''t give the player the ability to bring down meteor showers, you give him a dying candle and a dark room. If you want the player to be planning strategically, give him more options than what spells to cast, maybe let him order around a group of his fellow adventurers to allow the use of some squad tactics.

well, I don''t really play RPG''s much... but I noticed that the ones I did like(Chrono Trigger, Freedom Force, Deus Ex) didn''t even use classes at all. I guess I just don''t see what classes are good for...

...ok, one mare thing. How does it make it less realistic for the player to be able to learn any skill. In real life, if I want to learn something I can go to the library or take a class no matter what my occupation(class) is.

hehe, sorry for the anti-rpg rant.

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quote:
Original post by Ingenu
RPG = Role Playing Game
and not RUle Playing Game, like most players/designers think.



Good point... but your post isn''t helpful at all.

If the game is done right, one can turn any "R"PG into a roleplaying experience. It seems, the more numbers that are presented to a player, the more it plays like a strategy game. So hide the numbers! Give the player small benefits and obvious progression notifications, but don''t implement any numeric HUDs (or keep them to a bare minimum). Some people will argue that they like to see progression... that''s up to you to placate them.

cosa-nostra, you might look into a couple things I thought would particularly benefit a MMORPG:

Character Progression

1) Skill atrophy: your skills drop over time from lack of use.
2) Skill increase by time (rather than by use): if a skill is used in a period of time (let''s say, a game-day), it increases at the end of a week by a static amount. If not, it remains the same. This would curb powergamers in your game, and permit the casual players to advance at reasonably fair rates.

Skills

Common UO players tend to spend most of their time GMing skills, which is great for them, but terrible for the ''roleplaying experience''. What I would do is define a basic skill system (i.e. skill types defined as: combat, magic, diplomacy, metal crafting, wood crafting, and others with such simplicity).

Event System

Think too about a great world-event system that keeps players on their toes. Some way to manage NPCs in such a way that they interact with each other and inform the players of such occurrances of "points of interest".

Example: An oppressed town''s ''evil wizard overlord'' is defeated in combat. Before the overthrow, the townspeople are fearful and cautious. Afterward, they are thankful and rejoiceful.

It''s not an overly difficult thing to do, but it makes all the difference when your players feel like part of a bigger picture, rather than dealing with the sheep that are current-day game NPCs.

Hope this was somehow helpful; I personally detested the out-of-the-box UO because of its theft of ''real'' RPG values (not to mention the bastardization of the Ultima world), so I tried to make my post as informative as possible.

Good luck!



MatrixCubed
http://MatrixCubed.cjb.net

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Hi cosa-nostra,

I almost feel like I''m telling a secret, but ...
have you ever tried to find answers to questions like:

Why do people play roleplaying games ?
What games do they like best and why ?

Well the thing is ...

(*whisper*) They want to be respected, they want to have power, to be loved by someone, ... to have/do all the things that they do not have/can''t do in the real life.

Maybe some of them want to hack&slash other people or animals to death, maybe some of them want to burn&energize other people or animals to death, maybe ...

If you want to create a good game ...
Think about:

  • Interpersonal communication/interaction

    • Try to imagine all the ways humans communicate verbal + non verbal (like gestures, motions)
    • Try to imagine how humans express emotions
    • Try to imagine in how many ways can two people interact (shaking hands, swapping items, etc.)
    • Try to use your imagination ... or FAIL (like others did)

  • Character-world interaction

    • Recreate some of the player-world interaction by letting him to leave trails of presence behind.
    • Let him lose items, hide them, bury them, sell them and buy them again, but let them know they can influence the world they live in.
    • Let the player gain fame, reputation (bad or good).
    • But always check back with real life! You are allowed to bend the rules of the real world a little, but not too much.

  • Feedback

    • Let no action pass unnoticed, or let it pass unnoticed ON PURPOSE, as it suits you.
    • Let the player know, that he is beeing watched and ruled by an iron hand (i.e. a despotic king). He must feel he is IN THE GAME.



Believe it or not ... this less than

0.1%

of things you must think about before you might get close to creating a GOOD CRPG.

P.S.: Role-playing games are the most luring, but also the most difficult to create. Believe me, I tried (mabye I succeeded) to be a GM for my group, that was playing our custom created pen&paper RPG, for almost 5 years.

my god ... this wakes memories ...

have a nice time creating all those games ...

Petr Stedry

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Guest Anonymous Poster
[quoteIf you want to create a good game ...
Think about:
<ul>
<li>Interpersonal communication/interaction
<ul>
<li>Try to imagine all the ways humans communicate verbal + non verbal (like gestures, motions)
<li>Try to imagine how humans express emotions
<li>Try to imagine in how many ways can two people interact (shaking hands, swapping items, etc.)
<li>Try to use your imagination ... or FAIL (like others did)
</ul>
<li>Character-world interaction
<ul>
<li>Recreate some of the player-world interaction by letting him to leave trails of presence behind.
<li>Let him lose items, hide them, bury them, sell them and buy them again, but let them know they can influence the world they live in.
<li>Let the player gain fame, reputation (bad or good).
<li>But always check back with real life! You are allowed to bend the rules of the real world a little, but not too much.
</ul>
<li>Feedback
<ul>
<li>Let no action pass unnoticed, or let it pass unnoticed ON PURPOSE, as it suits you.
<li>Let the player know, that he is beeing watched and ruled by an iron hand (i.e. a despotic king). He must feel he is IN THE GAME.
</ul>
</ul>



And then the next step of course since it must run on a computer, is to throw all of it out.

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you should allow any character to try to learn any skill (with a few exceptions where they are mutually exclusive, such as a Paladin learning Necromancy or something)... but base their progress on their race, class, stats, etc...
for example (and i''m just using random generic classes and skills for RPGs these days), a mage-type could try to learn swordfighting or lockpicking, but they''d learn magic-type stuff much faster, and get to a higher skill level. maybe certain races could be preconditioned to learn certain skills faster/slower than others...
also, you should account for the character''s stats; an intelligent character should learn intelligence-related things faster than a somewhat dumber one, and an agile character should learn lockpicking faster than they learn axe fighting.
i also like that idea about skills deteriating over time if they aren''t used; even if you used to be a master of swordfighting ten years ago, you''d be "rusty" if you didn''t touch a sword for those years.
just my 2 cents...

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Well Anonymous,

what you said does not necessarily have to be true. And that is due to following reasons:


  1. The software does not need to run on ONE computer only!
  2. The software does not need to be 100% realistic.


It is upon the creators, that they decide what piece of the real world can they throw out, so the final game meets the criteria they''ve set for it (be it the criteria for realism or computing power).

If you''re ready to design a server-side oriented world engine (do not confuse with client''s visualisation engine - that''s something completely different) you may have more computing power at hand that NO SINGLE computer may deliver.

Even if you target that high , do not forget, that the best technique is to determine what the minimalistic model of your world looks like and build upon it.

have a nice day ...

Petr Stedry

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Guest Anonymous Poster
But i think if you can go all out and are able to lean every skill like UO that would be unrealistic and means the best character would win not the one with the best skill in a sense.

That is true, i think uo would had thought of that and they have in a bit... if you start a warrior class you cant (i think) cast magic as good as a pure mage. and a warlock cant cast as good as a pure mage.. so i think they have thought of it and a warlock fullspeced cant kick a warriors butt unless using magic

So you can still have the cap of the skill as high but you change the multipor lets say a mage have 1.0 * skill, a warrior could have 0.5 * skill or less... so you dont have to mess with the skill caps and so

Well duno realy if this was in the topic but i think so

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Thank you all for your replies it has given me more to think about i.e the interaction side which is a good point and all the information is helpful . I think i will definetely go with a more complex way of fighting other than the traditional one if sitting clicking your mouse hoping the screen wont lag. Perhaps incorporate things such as combo moves etc. Anonymous i dont think UO did take that into account well i think the POL servers did not the SPHERE in some shards you choose a class and you can only level up if the skills in your class that you choose levelled up. I think krez idea was a good one and would be a good way at looking at it anyway im sorry i cant reply straight and once again i appreciate all the help.

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