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Aerolithe

Visual Basic VS C++

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Hey, I have a minor delema. I want to get started with a programming language tommorow and I don't know which to choose. I was orriginally planning on C++ but my friend just started VB so if I learned that we could work together on stuff and help eachother, and it has its fair share of advantages. I would like some opinions on this. Also, can I get a free VB compiler? I know I can get free C++ compilers but VB is by Microsoft so that might bring up issues. Any opinions/thoughts/suggestions would be greatly appriceated. You should probably know I have no programming experience, and any book recomendations are appriceated. Online tutorials are also appriceated. If anyone has read Learn Microsoft Visual Basic 6.0 Now I'd like to know what they thought, it's what my friend has and he thinks its pretty good so far. ~Aerolithe (New, improved signature comming soon. Release date in late 2003, but expect delays and cut out features) [edited by - Aerolithe on November 9, 2002 12:24:37 AM]

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I used to program some in VB (for school) and I''m of two minds of it. It''s cool that you can rather quickly learn the basic and throw togheter some pretty advanced programs with it. But on the other hand it''s (IMHO) not a very nice and structurated language and it gives bad programming habits (e.g the fact that all veraibles are atomatical set to 0 when created and such).
The bottom line is that for something relativly simple (e.g a costomized notepad) I''d go with VB, but I''d never dream of trying to write a more complex game it in.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
No, there''s no free version of VB. Have you thought about Delphi (Object Pascal) as an alternative? The free version is pretty full-featured and it''s considered almost as fast to learn as VB. Most people seem to think it''s easier to go from Delphi to C++ than from VB to C++, if you want to do that later.

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Those two are my favorite languages. I learn''t Visual Basic first and found that it was very easy to make an application with lots of functionality. However the VB language has its drawbacks it is slow and lacks the functionality that C++ can give you. C++ is IMHO a harder language to learn, so you may be better off with Visual Basic.

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Hmmm... If you have absolutely no programming experience whatsoever, diving straight into C++ may get you stuck quite early... VB is a lot easier to learn if you haven''t programmed before... It''s more forgiving of errors and lets you build thing quickly and easily. Plus it''s a good way to step up to a more advanced language (like C++), later on.

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I dont have time to learn Visual Basic just so learning C++ will be easier. I wouldn''t even use Visual Basic and there is no way in hell I can afford the compiler. The books are pushing it. I have no job and about $50 right now. I need the name of a good C++ book that assumes I know absolutely nothing at all about programming I can not stress enough that it has to assume I am starting with no programming experience. Once again, it must assume that I DO NOT KNOW C. Thanks. Any help would be vrey greatly appriceated.

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Firstly, I''d go with Delphi over VB any day. It''s just as easy to use, WAY faster and it is actually a decent language to do complex programming in, even game programming (Age of Wonders and AoW2 for example are in Delphi).

Secondly if you go with C++ right away, I''d recommend "C++ The Complete Reference" by Herbert Schildt. It may be a bit tricky right off the bat, but it will teach you OO principles from ground up, which is a good thing. Good luck!

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Hmmm... VB vs C/C++ as a starting language...

Visual Basic is an awsome language if you''re starting out. You can do anything, anything in a matter of seconds. No need to worry about message pumps, creating a window class, so forth. It''s all there for you in advance.

Unfortunatly, that''s the main problem with VB. It''s all there for you in advance. Once you''ll move to C++, you''ll be lost and very little of what you''ll have learned with VB will apply. I found it was even harder to get into C++ after I switched from VB because I was expecting it to be similare. How wrong I was.

It''s up to you. If you''re in no hurry to learn programming, VB is a great place to start. Fun, easy, useful. Limited, too. What prompted me to move to C++ was when I realized how limited VB was after trying to make an SNES-like RPG. On my PIII 550, it ran fine. On my old man''s PII 233, it was lagging. Too much for what was supposed to be able to run on a much cheaper computer.

All in all, it depends where you want to go. VB is fine if you''re not aiming for anything too complex. Chances are you may want to get to some more interesting stuff like game developement or the likes, though, so I''d have to say C++. Though you could always take up VB and slowly migrate to C++ when you''re ready. Either way you''ll probably end up working on C++ if you want to progress.

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I want C++ for sure. I am positive on that. I need a good book for NEWBIES, not people who have some experience or people who know another language or people who know C, a book for people who dont program at all. I heard that C++: The Complete Refrence wasnt that great.

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Personally, I don''t think either of those makes for good beginner languages. Ever thought about looking into Python?



God puts an apple tree in the middle of the Garden of Eden and says, do what you like guys, oh, but don''t eat the apple. Surprise surprise, they eat it and he leaps out from behind a bush shouting "Gotcha." It wouldn''t have made any difference if they hadn''t eaten it... because if you''re dealing with somebody who has the sort of mentality which likes leaving hats on the pavement with bricks under them you know perfectly well they won''t give up. They''ll get you in the end. -- Douglas Adams

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I started with Visual Basic and I hated it. But I still had the best tutorials for it. "Beginning Visual Basic" by KIDWARE is the best starter for it. It mentions games quite a bit in these 10 lessons too. You can get the first 5 at Download.com. Type in "Visual BASIC tutorials" or something like that. I''d give you all ten tuturials if postage didn''t cost anything...

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quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
No, there's no free version of VB. Have you thought about Delphi (Object Pascal) as an alternative? The free version is pretty full-featured and it's considered almost as fast to learn as VB. Most people seem to think it's easier to go from Delphi to C++ than from VB to C++, if you want to do that later.


Last time I checked, Delphi 6 Personal isn't free anymore

[edited by - Exellon on November 10, 2002 5:56:42 PM]

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quote:
Original post by RuneLancer
Once you''ll move to C++, you''ll be lost and very little of what you''ll have learned with VB will apply.



I disagree. Since he has no programming experience whatsoever, VB will learn him a lot of general programming theory. Iterators and selectors, working with different types of variables... Even some basic window handler and message theory. VB enables you to learn that without, as you said, forcing you to go through the hassle of creating a window class or message pump. Imagine having to learn what a for-loop is -and- having to create a window from scratch.


quote:
Aerolithe
I dont have time to learn Visual Basic just so learning C++ will be easier.



You can forget about the whole concept of easy right now, if you decide to go for C++. It won''t be easier, and it won''t be faster.

If you''re absolutely serious about programming, learn the basics first, then move on to a more advanced language like C++.

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I need a compiler for VB though or whatever they call it for VB. I can''t stress enough the fact that I don''t have much money to invest in this.

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quote:
Original post by Bas Paap
[quote]Original post by RuneLancer
Once you'll move to C++, you'll be lost and very little of what you'll have learned with VB will apply.

I disagree. Since he has no programming experience whatsoever, VB will learn him a lot of general programming theory. Iterators and selectors, working with different types of variables... Even some basic window handler and message theory. VB enables you to learn that without, as you said, forcing you to go through the hassle of creating a window class or message pump. Imagine having to learn what a for-loop is -and- having to create a window from scratch.

Eh, you've got a good point there.

VB will teach basic programming concepts. Variables, conditional if's, loops, general programming themes... VB won't teach more advanced windows things. At most you might move to the win32 API, though, and that's very, very useful in C++ programming.

If you've got the time, VB is a nice place to start since it isn't too hard and, like Bas Paap said, it'll teach you the basics about programming if you have no programming experience at all; without throwing some heavier concepts at you right from the start.

[edited by - RuneLancer on November 10, 2002 7:30:29 PM]

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How about C#? it''s free and teaches oo programming fundamentals and is close to the C++ syntax. You must not really care for speed if you want to use vb so the extra overhead shouldn''t be a problem. There is plenty of stuff on the web about it and you can download ide''s for it. Plus it''s easy and you will be programming for "the next wave" LOL Well maybe not we will just have to see how .NET does...

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In response to you looking for a C++ book that requires no previous programming experience I recommend you look at some online tutorials first. They are free, some of them are very good and they will give you a good enough foundation of the language that you will be able to buy a more advanced book when you feel ready.
Some sites I can recommend are:

www.gametutorials.com
www.cplusplus.com
www.cprogramming.com

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About C#, is it currently being used for program devlopment? I thought it was primarily for web devlopment, is it intended to be primarily for web use? Does it seem to be growing fast? How closely related is it to C++? I am kind of intrested in C#, if it seems to have a future and there are plans for it being used as a language for a lot of programs and not just web stuff then its something I''d consider.

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Aerolithe I got just the thing for ya. go to www.gametutorials.com they have the most in-depth explanation of C and C++, they assume you know nothing at all, and the best thing is it''s FREE!! I heard C# has a bunch of problems in it, it was just released earlier this year by microsoft. go with C++ and if you understand it well then you can make an easy transition to C#.

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quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
No, there''s no free version of VB. Have you thought about Delphi (Object Pascal) as an alternative? The free version is pretty full-featured and it''s considered almost as fast to learn as VB. Most people seem to think it''s easier to go from Delphi to C++ than from VB to C++, if you want to do that later.


Visual Basic 6.0 Working Model Edition is free!



____________________________________________________________
Nothing dosen´t exist. Does it?

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C# is used for windows and web apps (same as C++ is used for web apps and windows apps) The reason I think everyone thinks C# is only for weba apps is because of the name of VS (VS .NET) and that it can be used for ASP webpages kinda like a script or to make web apps that run on ASP. As for adoption by industry it is actually catching on quite well so far. Just ask anyone in the industry and the chance is that they are using it or had to learn it in case. I am actually surprised how fast corperations caught on to .NET. I stayed away from .NET because I thought that it was too fast for industry to actually adopt it but I was wrong. I Trying to find a job as a programmer and everyone was asking if I knew C# or .NET As for problems with the compiler, there is problems with it but that is normal, there are problems with the VC++ compiler too. I personally have not had any problem with it yet.

this shows how to make the computer beep 25 times at random frequencys.

  
using System;
using System.Runtime.InteropServices;

namespace Beep
{
class Class1
{
[DllImport("kernel32.dll")]
public static extern bool Beep(int frequency, int duration);

static void Main(string[] args)
{
Random random = new Random();

for (int i = 0; i < 25; i++)
{
Beep(random.Next(10000), 100);
}
}
}
}


and a very simple one to show how to show a message box

  
using System
using System.Windows.Forms

namespace MySpace
{
class Class1
{


static void Main()
{
MessageBox("Boo");
}
}
}


The syntax is very close to C++ (I originally learned C++ before C#)

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Guest Anonymous Poster
quote:
Original post by Exellon
Last time I checked, Delphi 6 Personal isn''t free anymore


Hmmm, you''re right. That''s bad news.

quote:
Original post by peter86
Visual Basic 6.0 Working Model Edition is free!

True, but IMHO it''s pretty lame. It doesn''t compile EXEs and there''s no online docs.

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