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PicoGUI

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Anyone ever used PicoGUI? I keep hearing how X should be replaced. Could PicoGUI be a good replacement? Anything out there better than both of these? What about it?

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Guest Anonymous Poster
you just reminded me about it... im ganna put it on my zaurus right now :>

i''ll be back to tell you my impressions

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Guest Anonymous Poster
hmm so far... it looks pretty nice but i cannot see much of a real use for it, there is too little there...

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Guest Anonymous Poster
their website documents a lot... it is really amazing just not much written for it in terms of apps

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quote:
Original post by BradDaBug
Anyone ever used PicoGUI?

Not I.

quote:
I keep hearing how X should be replaced.

It''s an erroneous assessment. X should be redesigned and/or refactored; X fulfills most of its objectives excellently. It only happens to consume too much bandwidth because it supports overly low-level graphical objects. Modifications to the X protocol (essentially, writing a new X-like server) to allow client-specified objects be referenced, as well as an initialization/server update method that allows for icons, colors, etc to be uploaded to the server would solve most of X''s network load issues.

quote:
Could PicoGUI be a good replacement?

Possibly sometime in the future. To be a good replacement, though, it needs to be able to shoulder the burden X currently bears. Having been developed for entirely different uses (PDAs), it''s unclear whether that will ever happen - or if it''s even possible.

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quote:
Original post by Oluseyi
X should be redesigned and/or refactored; X fulfills most of its objectives excellently. It only happens to consume too much bandwidth because it supports overly low-level graphical objects. Modifications to the X protocol (essentially, writing a new X-like server) to allow client-specified objects be referenced, as well as an initialization/server update method that allows for icons, colors, etc to be uploaded to the server would solve most of X''s network load issues.


Is anyone working to fix these problems?

And why is a client/server model so necessary for just a desktop machine?

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quote:
Original post by BradDaBug
Is anyone working to fix these problems?

I''m thinking about a project sometime in the next year.

quote:
And why is a client/server model so necessary for just a desktop machine?

Therein lies the problem: desktop users think the world ends with them. X is designed for robust usage in a wide variety of contexts. A client-server model isn''t necessary for a desktop machine, but it is useful when you really think about it. Say you wanted to work on your home machine while at the office, or on the road, or anywhere away from home. For non-client-server architectures, you''d need specialized software to dump and transfer your screen output over a network. With X and its built-in network transparency, you merely need to authenticate the workstation you are at and your remote desktop is immediately rendered locally (eat your heart out, MS) - even in a window.

Testing also benefits from X''s structure, as you can run a nested X server on your machine and render its output within a window such that if it crashes (very useful for game developers) it doesn''t take your whole desktop down with it.

Using Unix requires a paradigm shift in thinking. If I have my way and can bring some of my nascent projects to fruition, the shift will switch to overdrive and create tangible benefits for the average desktop user as well.

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quote:
Original post by Oluseyi
Therein lies the problem: desktop users think the world ends with them.

And they''re usually right.



For those who believe in God, most of the big questions are answered. But for those of us who can''t readily accept the God formula, the big answers don''t remain stone- written. We adjust to new conditions and discoveries. We are pliable. Love need not be a command or faith a dictum. I am my own God. We are here to unlearn the teachings of the church, state, and our educational system. We are here to drink beer. We are here to kill war. We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us -- Charles Bukowski

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The following is an off topic announcement.

quote:
Original post by Oluseyi
Using Unix requires a paradigm shift in thinking.


My roommate starts flame wars about whether CTRL+C should be used for copy and paste rather than the X method of highlighting and pasting. He says it is easier. Other people complain that he is trying to enforce a MS Windows way of working onto an already established *nix way of working.
In some ways I agree with him and in others I don''t.
He thinks that GNU/Linux should be a better Windows. He is very anti-Microsoft.
I think that GNU/Linux should be a good OS, regardless if it handles like Windows or not. I frankly don''t care so much about Microsoft so much as what it has done in the past. I refused to care about the XBox not because it was an MS product but because MS bought a bunch of developers for way more than they would have made on the game, which I thought was unfair.

My roommate is a usability critic. If he finds something he considers to be wrong with how a program runs, he refuses to use it. Example: man pages. He refuses to use them because he feels he shouldn''t have to.
He will go on and on about how Linux programs are horrible in general because they don''t interoperate "properly" or have inconsistent interfaces.
He will complain that he wants a feature that is found in most other OSes.
Someone will just shoot back that just because 90% of the people use something it doesn''t mean that Linux should adapt to that.
He argues, "Well if Linux is supposed to be brought to the masses, then it will have to"
and I tend to argue, "But (1) the masses don''t have to play with my toy and (2) why doesn''t the world adapt instead?"
I think that *nix is a different way of life. It means knowing what you''re doing. It means that you can''t just try to bumble your way through your computer to get it to do something for you.
And so it isn''t for the person who wants a glorified typewriter. It isn''t for the person who doesn''t want to learn how the computer works but wants it to do stuff for him.
I''m sorry, but I learn how to drive a car before assuming that I can use one. I didn''t get in a car and say "Well why doesn''t moving my feet move the car? It is how it works when I walk. This is stupid" and then get back out. You have to put just a little effort into using your tools correctly. Even using a hammer or a screwdriver takes at least some education, so if you use your computer more like a tool than as a hobby, then you still have to learn how to use it. Maybe the new Mac OS and Windows tries to make computers easier to use, but the farther away from the computer I get, the less appeal the interfaces have to me. I like to get under the hood. I will use the higher interfaces when I (1) don''t have time to learn about it or (2) already know as much as I want about how it works.

Linux gives me the choice.
Windows gives me less of a choice.
Mac OS is practically no choice.
So if you want Linux to be the new Mac OS, be my guest. People will love it, but I won''t.
I want more control of my computer than Apple can provide me.

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quote:
Original post by BradDaBug
And why is a client/server model so necessary for just a desktop machine?


It isn''t but X wasn''t meant to be on a desktop originally.
I wonder if it is possible for someone to create a version of X that doesn''t act so much like a server. Would it be possible to keep the same interfaces but preventing the networking aspect from working? Kind of like removing a feature while keeping the stub? Or would it be more work?

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Why can''t we have both? Why does *nix have to mean one thing? What if folks said "No! KDE is WRONG!" or "No! Gnome is WRONG!" but instead we have both.

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I have no problem with having both. I use KDE because that is what I got used to. But I would also like to look into Gnome or even Blackbox or something else.
The desktop environment should be a matter of personal choice, like the color of your background or the dice in the mirror of your car.
Programs run fine outside of KDE even if they require KDE libraries. Same with Gnome.
We all win.

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I''m not talking about Gnome and KDE. That was just a metaphore, i suppose.

What I''m saying is whenever someone says "Linux should be granny friendly" lots of folks go "NO! COMMAND LINE! UNDER THE HOOD! POWER! CONTROL!" and demand no one touch their precious GNU stuff. Why can''t there be multiple versions of Linux (we could call them "distrobutions" or something) so that folks who want power and control and etc can have it, but people who want brain dead, grannny friendly Linux can have it too?

Why does it have to be such a debate? Its not like theres ONE and ONLY ONE right way to do it.

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quote:
Original post by BradDaBug
Why does it have to be such a debate? Its not like theres ONE and ONLY ONE right way to do it.


Because that would mean that Linux users would have to keep their mouths shut for more than 5 minutes, if that happens then their brains may actually start working and productivity might increase.

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If anything will replace X (not likely any time soon, IMO) it will be Fresco (www.fresco.org)

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quote:
Original post by Arild Fines
Therein lies the problem: desktop users think the world ends with them.
And they''re usually right.

Only when referring to desktop operating systems, something Linux simply isn''t.

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quote:
Original post by GBGames
My roommate starts flame wars about whether CTRL+C should be used for copy and paste rather than the X method of highlighting and pasting. He says it is easier. Other people complain that he is trying to enforce a MS Windows way of working onto an already established *nix way of working.

It should be flexible. The underlying functionality should be provided in such a way that the user can invoke it in few standard ways. Computers should adapt to the way people work, and not vice-versa.

quote:
In some ways I agree with him and in others I don''t.
He thinks that GNU/Linux should be a better Windows. He is very anti-Microsoft.
I think that GNU/Linux should be a good OS, regardless if it handles like Windows or not.

Windows is far from ideal. Why emulate that? Why not innovate and improve on what can be done using a modern OS? (Tell that to GNOME and KDE.)

quote:
My roommate is a usability critic. If he finds something he considers to be wrong with how a program runs, he refuses to use it.

Good for him! If there were more people like him, maybe we wouldn''t have so much bad software.

quote:
Example: man pages. He refuses to use them because he feels he shouldn''t have to.

Man pages are sound in concept but now behind the curve in implementation. We have (ubiquitous) hypertext documentation today (HTML); why stick to obscure niche formats that can not be easily shared and manipulated (man, info)?

quote:
He will go on and on about how Linux programs are horrible in general because they don''t interoperate "properly" or have inconsistent interfaces.

He''s right.

quote:
He will complain that he wants a feature that is found in most other OSes.

This is a complicated one. Some features found in other OSes make no sense (applications that steal focus, courtest Microsoft, are spawns of satan).

quote:
...I tend to argue, "But (1) the masses don''t have to play with my toy and (2) why doesn''t the world adapt instead?"

See above. Computers (and software) should adapt to the way people work. They may require a different paradigm for the user to benefit maximally from them, but they should strive to reflect the way people think and organize and interact with their data.

Example: the hierarchical filesystem is a good idea, but it has limitations. In fact, the model is outdated and a relational database model is more useful because it allows users to create conceptual associations that can act as filters for searching and manipulating data. Requiring users to add relationships between several pieces of data frequently is silly, so we can use the hierarchical filesystem as an abstract interface to creating data relationships. Have all data stored in one flat repository, but have the user view the data as existing in directories. Dragging a file to a new directory "copies" it there, which creates an association with that directory as well. By giving directories useful names ("roleplaying", "images") the user can then operate on data in powerful ways using directory identifiers as filter terms.

quote:
I think that *nix is a different way of life. It means knowing what you''re doing.

I think that Unix needs to evolve beyond its original goals of being a great software development environment and portable OS; it needs to morph ot being a solid, open and standard technical foundation for next-generation computing, and that requires the addition of candy shells to the rock-solid core.

quote:
I''m sorry, but I learn how to drive a car before assuming that I can use one.

Did you learn how a car works - in-depth? Even if you did, did you have to? The analogy is poor; today''s computers require users have too much understanding of their internals to really benefit from them (otherwise you cower in fear before these temperamental machines that gobble your data).

quote:
Linux gives me the choice.
Windows gives me less of a choice.
Mac OS is practically no choice.

Choice is overrated. I want productivity and interoperability. I want to focus on getting things done rather than making things work (the way I want them to). And so do most people. Sorry, but the defensive "My Linux!" types simply have to accept that Linux'' mainstream future is as a commodity OS - and that is a necessity if we want reasonable guarantees of privacy and autonomy in the digital age.

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quote:
Original post by BradDaBug
Why can''t we have both?

We can. And eventually, we will. The question is whether that will happen soon enough.

There are many efforts to commoditize Linux and make it palatable to and usable by the general public. The only problem is the absolute lack of inspiration in such efforts.

quote:
What if folks said "No! KDE is WRONG!" or "No! Gnome is WRONG!" but instead we have both.

Actually, they''re both wrong.

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