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Syntaxxed

PS2 and Xbox quality games...

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I''ve been into programming for a while now and starting exploring the game development area. And i was just wanted to know how come most games created by programmers here and other places don''t have graphics that look like games such as maybe a Vice City or NFL Madden? Is it very hard to accomplish something at that level or just takes too much time to do without a large development team, or both? I was interested in knowing this, becasue i would possible like to be able to create games like those.

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It''s probably because professional games have large teams, really good artists, colossal budgets, and professional programmers.

The majority of indie projects have small teams (or one person alone), if the programmers are lucky they might get a decent artist, they have little or no money to spend, and they are probably still learning skills that professional programmers have already mastered.

It seems pretty obvious to me.

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Yes.

I applied to become an XBox developer. They want details of 3 previous commercial releases (that I''ve been involved in). Needless to say, as an Indie that''s just not feasable.

Superpig
- saving pigs from untimely fates, and when he''s not doing that, runs The Binary Refinery.

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To superpig,

We recently got accepted as Xbox developers and one thing I would like to note is that the devkit costs about $10.000 - so besides experience you also need some dough to throw after it.
In short, console development is not feasible unless you are part of a company.

To Syntaxxed,

Where I work we about 15-20 people and we do create a engine and graphics on par with the top games out there. So don''t forget the professionals are reading the forums here too (alhtough most people here are indies) - we just don''t post it on the web for everybody to see since we have to earn some money.

Getting into the game industry is not as easy as getting into many other IT industries but it isn''t impossibly hard either. Get a good degree in computers, learn all you can about games and you will succeed eventually if you work hard enough.



Jacob Marner, M.Sc.
Console Programmer, Deadline Games

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quote:
Original post by felonius
To superpig,

We recently got accepted as Xbox developers and one thing I would like to note is that the devkit costs about $10.000 - so besides experience you also need some dough to throw after it.
In short, console development is not feasible unless you are part of a company.


That would be the incubator program, right? Where they give you a machine as part of the package... I was applying for the XBox Prototyping Kit, which I''ve heard is just a word document detailing how to set up your build environment for XBox development (i.e. stuff you can/can not use, etc.)


Superpig
- saving pigs from untimely fates, and when he''s not doing that, runs The Binary Refinery.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
The sad part about big games is that you would likely only work on the AI, or the menu interface, or different parts like this, its nothing like being independant

10k for the xbox dev kit? Isnt'' that cheap? i thought the ps2 dev kit used to be 22k

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Guest Anonymous Poster
edit of above:
is it just me or the graphics on the xbox/ps2 are awfully "blurry"? maybe its because they are shown on a TV, but i''ve tried on hdtv and no diff. this is uncomparable to UT2k3''s CRISP and wonderful graphics!

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Guest Anonymous Poster
A cheap version of a ps2 dev kit is availible for about $150 or so, it runs a linux kernal.. it isn''t an official kit but it''s about 1/10th the price of playing with Xbox (which >sucks< by the way!)

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no, it is just you, on my 61" projection tv, my xbox is very crisp...unreal championship is very nice and i like it's online gaming more than unreal tournament 2003...

project gotham racing is very nice looking and pgr2 will support 780i resolution!

halo is nice...but not the best, but has the best outdoor drawing distances...

the best is easily rallisport challenge (for realtime rendering) it takes advantage of anti-aliasing as it shur is pertty! i love it to death!

EDIT: I should probably leave something about the topic...
I am 16 years old I am working as an artist on a commercial game. I have one crappy game out called Galactic Wars (good except VERY buggy) and I have 2 other games that are in my past and lost in the digital world (these are Space Invaders 2003 and Lemonade Stand). I am working on Galactic Wars 2. I will starting a go-kart racing game this summer (maybe) and I will start my Unkown Series (thats the name of the 3 games) sometime next year. I am a junior in high school, I will be majoring in Computer-Science. I have taken Intro to C++, I am taking AP C++ and I will be taking Intro to Java and then AP Java (next year). I look forward to working on many commercial games. I want to reach Microsoft, Bungie, Epic Games or Bizarre Creations as my best job.

btw...2 questions for the pros out there...
- How are my credentials so far...?
- What companies are you guys working for (if Bungie, you must reveal all you know about Halo 2!)

<- Digital Explosions ->
"Discipline is my sword, faith is my shield
do not dive into uncertainty, and you may live to reap the rewards" - (Unreal Championship)

[edited by - Krisc on January 20, 2003 1:18:46 AM]

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>> 10k for the xbox dev kit? Isnt'' that cheap? i thought the ps2 dev kit used to be 22k

A PS2Devkit is 10k (dollars or Euro depending on where you are located) too these days. Microsoft just put their price in the same range as the PS2.

>> A cheap version of a ps2 dev kit is availible for about $150 or so, it runs a linux kernal.. it isn''t an official kit but it''s about 1/10th the price of playing with Xbox (which >sucks< by the way!)

Please do *not* call the PS2 Linux kit for a PS2 devkit. There is a world of difference. A linux kit requires Linux to be installed which consumes a lot of vital memory (remember there is only 32 MB RAM). You don''t get Sony''s real development libraries (only some to go through Linux - the code I see on website don''t look like the libraries I use) and I am told the Linux ones generally are slower. Furthermore a PS2 devkit has 128 MB RAM (8 MB in the IOP) which allows debug builds of large executables. The devkit allows remote development over a network so I can compile to at and debug from MS Visual Studio (using an extra tool called ProDG from SN Systems) and I can make the PS2 read data over the network which makes protyping from game content made in Max or our editor a bliss. The PS2 Linux kit is intende for hobbyist that want to play around with the PS2 hardware.

>> That would be the incubator program, right? Where they give you a machine as part of the package... I was applying for the XBox Prototyping Kit, which I''ve heard is just a word document detailing how to set up your build environment for XBox development (i.e. stuff you can/can not use, etc.)

I don''t know. I didn''t apply for the stuff. But I guess that our application went through because we have a cool game demo, are already licensed for PS2 development and we know some highup people at some big publishers that could acknowledge that we were serious.



Jacob Marner, M.Sc.
Console Programmer, Deadline Games

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