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Chia_Pet

What C++ should i use to learn?

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ok, im a complete newbie at programming. i want to learn C++, i currently have access to Visual C++.NET and Visual C++ 6.0 i just aquired the MS VIsual C++ .NET Deluxe learning Edition from Barnes and Noble. previously i had bought the 6.0 from the net and all i got were the CD''s (OEM) when i installed the 6.0 it kept hyaving problems for some reason installing on XP. so i went to one of my usual internet hangouts and asked what the differences were between 6.0 and .NET. after varied responces a few pointed out that i should learn C++ on UNIX as it would be more solid code( or something like that) so, my question is, if i want to learn C++ what Version (borland, MS visual,whatever) would garner me the best understanding of the language, and should i learn to program on UNIX or simply my Windows (XP in this case)?

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Step 1:
Get Kazaa Lite (www.fasttrackhelp.com)

Step 2:
Never EVER buy anything made by Microsoft ever again (they won''t mind losing a few hundred bucks)

Step 3:
Get on Kazaa Lite and download any of about 4 books on C++. Also, there should have been a tutorial with MSVC++ 6.

Step 4:
Before you go out and make Mr. Gates any richer, look on Kazaa for a rip (this is assuming you do not get the software for a company). Do not worry about all the damn disclaimers and the flamers agains this. It is fine! Bill Gates already has too much money...

Step 4:
Check out gametutorials.com for the really basic stuff.

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zackriggle
Why wouldn´t you want to buy MS products? If you don´t like Bill Gates then don´t use his companies products at all. Better you learn using other IDE´s and how they work because you can´t use rips if you want to make commercial games. MS do alot of good products and should be payed for them. If you disagree then use a free compileer instead, what´s the use of ripping of MS?




Bad Monkey Productions

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quote:
Original post by zackriggle
Step 1:
Get Kazaa Lite (www.fasttrackhelp.com)

Step 2:
Never EVER buy anything made by Microsoft ever again (they won''t mind losing a few hundred bucks)

Step 3:
Get on Kazaa Lite and download any of about 4 books on C++. Also, there should have been a tutorial with MSVC++ 6.

Step 4:
Before you go out and make Mr. Gates any richer, look on Kazaa for a rip (this is assuming you do not get the software for a company). Do not worry about all the damn disclaimers and the flamers agains this. It is fine! Bill Gates already has too much money...

Step 4:
Check out gametutorials.com for the really basic stuff.


Your not just taking money from Bill Gates, you are also taking money from Microsoft employees who don''t have such big salaries.

500 errors:1

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and you kill chances for anti-m$-products to get a chance on the marked. you''re pro-m$, just too 1337 to say it. if you would be 1337, you would eighter support m$ really, or support linux and other ide''s, and that stuff.. or both, like i do. so i can get best of all..

and now don''t tell me i''m not 1337, because else i gonna tell you who''s your daddy!




i suggest you some visual c++ product from m$, it makes the start quite easy (espencially if you lived till now in the windows world..). you can get free compilers from then (or very cheap ones). they are just not that good in quality (speed of the final programs isn''t that good, as it doesn''t optimize well, etc.. but for learning, its good enough).

my first c++ was some c++ book including vc6.. all worked well, dunno what problems you had installing it.. never tried vc6 on xp, though.. using .NET now..

"take a look around" - limp bizkit
www.google.com

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Stop this idiocy, plz!
But really, I wouldn''t use VC++. I used Dev-C++ (www.bloodshed.net) and it''s great.
Using Dev-C++ is like writing UNIX C++ because it uses a windows port of the unix compiler gcc. And yes, I think it''s more standard compliant than the MS one (no I''m not gonna write M$)

davepermen, dunno if you''re joking... if you''re not, know that nobody cares whether you''re 1337.

No, I''m not gonna post my opinion on pirating MS software. Please stop flaming!


"George W. Bush Geography Simplification Initiative"

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My Homepage (C++ SDL OpenGL Game Programming)

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Another reason NOT to use a pirated version of MSVC. You make some amatuer indie game and some internet publisher likes it and buys it off you for a few hundred dollars. Your excited you just sold your first game. Now Microsoft finds out a commercial game has been made using a pirated version of their product - your definatly going to do some jail time.

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Chia_Pet:
MSVC6 works 'quite' fine under XP. THe only problem sometimes is you need to click save many times. You got the VS.Net ... why not use it?
"C++ on UNIX would be solid"? Lame coder write lame code. Period. Don't listen to them. Make sure you got a good book on C++.

[EDIT] Though not the best, that book inuendo suggest is quite good.

-------

zackriggle:
It's fine if you are really joking. You jealous of Gates? Or you just simply hate Microsoft? But then why you use Microsoft products if you hate 'em sooo much? Acting like this (suggesting rip) don't make you like Robinhood.

------

evil sausage: davepermen is continuing your post. Thus he's not refering you.

[edited by - DerekSaw on January 21, 2003 8:20:14 PM]

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The answer is:

Use whatever one you are most comfortable learning on.

No compiler is perfect, and all have positives and negitives. Here''s the thing. If you are a n00b, you won''t be *really* be able to really tell the difference.(besides finding a tutorial with code that won''t compile with your current compiler.)

Coding on Linux has taught me a few things, made me a better programmer, because there isn''t any hand holding. However, learning on linux is just as bad as learning on VC++, you pick up annoying habits(read: compiler/OS specific habits) no matter what compiler you use...

good luck

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You can go with any C++ compiler as long as you make sure it''s a C++ compiler (assuming you''re wanting to learn C++). If you want some opinions, I prefer Microsoft Visual Studio products over Dec-C++, but there are many others out there that would disagree. So the basic thing is, try out a couple, and then decide for yourself.



tcache
Contact Me
-----------
AH! MY BRAIN IS GOING TO SELF-DETONATE! -- Yours Truly (Jan, 2003)

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Guest Anonymous Poster
If you have no money to buy M$ Visual Studio, and want to make commercial
games I would tell you something, get the rip off the net and make your
game, if you can make the game a commercial game you should buy an original
copy of M$ Visual Studio... Sorry about ''encouraging piracy'' but sometimes
we really need it. Note that if you''re going to make any money with your
program you should have an original copy of VC++, otherwise if you''re
programming some stuff just for fun you could get a student version of
VC++ wich is MUCH cheaper than the Enterprise version, however the compiler
is not so good (doesn''t do some optimizations), but why the hell do you
need optimized code if you''re making small stuff??

Think about it, and think on buying an original copy too, think about
someone making a pirate copy of a software that you made, would you like it???

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if you can''t afford visual studio, then GET A FUCKIN JOB and work until you can. VS is a tool of your trade, an investment in your future as a developer (game or otherwise). Nobody tells musicians to fuck over fender or gibson if they can''t afford their guitars, yet they''re both "big corporations that can afford it". Grow up, visual C++ .net standard is $109. If your future isn''t worth that much of an investment, you shouldn''t be programming

"That''s not a bug, it''s a feature!"
--me

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personally i dont have a problem with certain people using illegal copies of software for learning purposes (ie. people in 3rd world countries + young people without money), after all these people will eventually purchase official products, and the producers of the software will have a customer that would not be buying there software if they hadnt had access to the illegal copies.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
quote:
Original post by deal
personally i dont have a problem with certain people using illegal copies of software for learning purposes (ie. people in 3rd world countries + young people without money), after all these people will eventually purchase official products, and the producers of the software will have a customer that would not be buying there software if they hadnt had access to the illegal copies.




Yes, that''s what I mean. I am a not aged to work guy who NEEDS
programming, and I have a pirate copy of VisualC++ 6.0, but as soon as I
get a job I''ll be buying an original copy of VC++, I learned C++ with the
pirate copy, if I hadn''t the copy how would I learn C++ ? I''m not a rich
guy who can afford to buy original copies of software like VC++.
If I didn''t know C++ yet I probably wouldn''t get an original copy of the
software.......

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Actully Kazaa is leagel for now,because your SHARING files. So M.r Gates can't do annything.

[edited by - ND on January 22, 2003 8:58:00 PM]

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quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster

Yes, that''s what I mean. I am a not aged to work guy who NEEDS
programming,


no such thing, dude. If you''re old enough to want an expensive piece of software, you''re old enough to work for it. Mow the lawn, wash your neighbours cars, do oddjobs, or borrow the money from your parents and pay them back, get it for your birthday/christmas/barmitzvah/insert gift giving occasion of your choice.

And if you still can''t manage to scrape up the cash a) there are plenty of free alternatives and b) give up programming, ''cos if you''re that much of a waste of space you can''t even accomplish earning $100 you''re not going to make it as a coder.



"That''s not a bug, it''s a feature!"
--me

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OMG, the TOWGPG book COMES with VC++ intro version! The book itself is like $50-$60 US which is expensive, but again, it has VC++ intro on there. Yes, it is intro, no, you shouldn''t distribute, but really, if you can program a game worthy of going commericial in VC++ intro, THEN go buy the real one. It''s that simple, IMO.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
quote:
Original post by ChaosEngine

... b) give up programming, ''cos if you''re that much of a waste of space you can''t even accomplish earning $100 you''re not going to make it as a coder.



Actually I''m not at my country now, so it''s a little difficult to work for
somebody when I don''t even know how to speak their language...

But what does not having $100 has to do with not getting a job in the future
as a coder?? Do they only accept rich people??

In fact almost everything that I have is pirated, BTW if all the software
were cheaper they(software developers) would win much more $$$$ ''cause crackers
wouldn''t waste time on cracking cheap software ''cause everyone prefers an
original copy of a software instead of a pirated one (reasons: comes with
the manual and stuff like that). If I had not pirated software then the
only thing I would have that is not pirated is probably a Win98 OEM version,
some Command & C*nquer games (my favorites) and some other stuff...

If I could get such a gift for birthday or christmas you doubt and I want it???

Oh, and why would I want free alternatives when I have VC++ ?
As I said on a previous post, if I make a commercial app. then I can
buy an original copy of VC++ so I can make some profit and recover my financial status...

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quote:
Original post by ND
Actully Kazaa is leagel for now,because your SHARING files. So M.r Gates can''t do annything.

[edited by - ND on January 22, 2003 8:58:00 PM]



Your right, Kazaa is legal to use...too bad its illegal to SHARE programs like MS Visual C++.

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On topic (to the OP):
you will be fine learning C++ using either IDE. i've used both and prefer the .NET IDE. however, there are plenty of people who prefer VC6. many here at work swear up and down that the VC6 compiler is much faster, but i suspect that's just psycho-somatic.

Off topic (to others):
i'd also not be so quick to jump on the "file sharing is COOL" bandwagon on this board. you will be banned instantly for using pirated softward. here's an example thread:

http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=228795

-me

[edited by - Palidine on June 7, 2004 8:33:44 PM]

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