Does anyone use java in games???
Author
I was just wondering if any big companies or even small companies are using java in there games? My father ( master''s degree in computer science ) says that java is the next generation code.
pls respond and thx.
Java is definately NOT the next generation code. Go to the "For beginners" forum and look up the topic "Is C++ dying"
Catastrophic Valiant Kim-Chee Earthquake Stomp-Kick!
Catastrophic Valiant Kim-Chee Earthquake Stomp-Kick!
Hi,
I was the guy who wrote the report "Evalulating Java for Game Development" (http://www.rolemaker.dk/articles/evaljava/index.htm) I have Master's in computer science too and am pro game developer. So I would think I know a lot about this subject.
As can read in my report Java can be used for games, and can be used with advantage. The advantage of Java is the increased productivty it gives while the cost is reduced performance (not as much as many people think but it is still reduced).
Anyway the primary reason it is *not* used a lot in actual games is because Java in general cannot run on consoles (although Sun has en effort that attempt to make this happen - but I am beginning to doubt that they will succeed) and sicne most games these days need to be released on consoles too, Java is out of the question.
The reason your dad says the Java is next generation code is because it is gaining a lot of ground in general application development where stability and producitivty is far more important than a few percent in performance. However, game development (and most other kinds of systems development - such as writing a harddisk driver) does not fit this model very well.
So in conclusion, Java might become popular for games one day, but given todays consoles and their limited memory (not very garbage collector friendly) but it will not happen any time soon.
Show your father my report and I am sure he will see my point.
BTW, my report lists the games that I have found out uses Java in one way or another - and Extrarius says these are mainly using them as scripting languages - the latest major one was I.L. Sturmovich.
Jacob Marner, M.Sc.
Console Programmer, Deadline Games
[edited by - felonius on January 22, 2003 1:18:12 AM]
I was the guy who wrote the report "Evalulating Java for Game Development" (http://www.rolemaker.dk/articles/evaljava/index.htm) I have Master's in computer science too and am pro game developer. So I would think I know a lot about this subject.
As can read in my report Java can be used for games, and can be used with advantage. The advantage of Java is the increased productivty it gives while the cost is reduced performance (not as much as many people think but it is still reduced).
Anyway the primary reason it is *not* used a lot in actual games is because Java in general cannot run on consoles (although Sun has en effort that attempt to make this happen - but I am beginning to doubt that they will succeed) and sicne most games these days need to be released on consoles too, Java is out of the question.
The reason your dad says the Java is next generation code is because it is gaining a lot of ground in general application development where stability and producitivty is far more important than a few percent in performance. However, game development (and most other kinds of systems development - such as writing a harddisk driver) does not fit this model very well.
So in conclusion, Java might become popular for games one day, but given todays consoles and their limited memory (not very garbage collector friendly) but it will not happen any time soon.
Show your father my report and I am sure he will see my point.
BTW, my report lists the games that I have found out uses Java in one way or another - and Extrarius says these are mainly using them as scripting languages - the latest major one was I.L. Sturmovich.
Jacob Marner, M.Sc.
Console Programmer, Deadline Games
[edited by - felonius on January 22, 2003 1:18:12 AM]
Whenever the original developers for Java started it out as an interpreted byte-code language instead of a native JIT like C#, they lost a lot of the audience.
I would actually use C# for a scripting language since you can compile source into native code AT RUNTIME and be able to use it.
I would actually use C# for a scripting language since you can compile source into native code AT RUNTIME and be able to use it.
Java is by far the leading language for mobile phones so it is certainly possible to find game companies that use Java for their games, in the form of J2ME. Jacob''s post sums up the situation for normal games pretty well though.
Nypyren, I don''t think you know what you are talking about. Java does have JIT like C#.
C# is also compiled into byte code (like Java). So all those things you mentioned about C# are actually available in Java. Furthermore, how could the original developers of Java have lost an audience when the "original developers for Java started it out as an interpreted byte-code language"? You can''t lose something you do not have yet. Anyway, if anything Sun has gained an audience with Java.
It would be nice if people actually knew what they were talking about before they post.
As far as the rest of the thread is concerned I would most definetly agree with Jacob Marner even though I really like Java and would love to see a wider use of it in the game industry.
C# is also compiled into byte code (like Java). So all those things you mentioned about C# are actually available in Java. Furthermore, how could the original developers of Java have lost an audience when the "original developers for Java started it out as an interpreted byte-code language"? You can''t lose something you do not have yet. Anyway, if anything Sun has gained an audience with Java.
It would be nice if people actually knew what they were talking about before they post.
As far as the rest of the thread is concerned I would most definetly agree with Jacob Marner even though I really like Java and would love to see a wider use of it in the game industry.
felonius - I read your paper, and has mostly good thoughts about it. I was dissapointed at the benchmarks though. 5 minutes with the c++ code and I doubled the performance on the already tweaked game of life.
If you really wanted to compare performance, you should have had a random pool of java coders and a random pool of c++ coders implement some project. Then you could compare performance between the groups. Any other way of doing it is not really scientific. The same goes for claims of increased productivity.
Anyway, I found the rest of the paper well thought out, and felt that it did a good job of discussing the issues between the two languages. We definitely need more research, and less marketing, to determine the utility of programming languages.
As a side note, I would expect that a factor limiting java''s use for games is its inability to expose the hardware.
If you really wanted to compare performance, you should have had a random pool of java coders and a random pool of c++ coders implement some project. Then you could compare performance between the groups. Any other way of doing it is not really scientific. The same goes for claims of increased productivity.
Anyway, I found the rest of the paper well thought out, and felt that it did a good job of discussing the issues between the two languages. We definitely need more research, and less marketing, to determine the utility of programming languages.
As a side note, I would expect that a factor limiting java''s use for games is its inability to expose the hardware.
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