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How are PSX Games done ?

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How are PSX Games done ? I mean there`s no exe only a Slus***.*** and something like that... Most of the cases there`s a masive file an img holding about 600-700 MB of data... How is the data interpreted ? How can there be rendering if there is no DX or OpenGL ? How do they compile the code written in what ?

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>> How are PSX Games done ?

They're programmed in much the same way as games for the PC or any other platform is. I'll go into that more in a minute...

>>I mean there`s no exe only a Slus***.*** and something like that...

As for the no .exe file, just because the Playstation doesn't use the PE .exe format for its binaries doesn't mean that there isn't some file on there which the console executes on startup as the main binary.

>>Most of the cases there`s a masive file an img holding about 600-700 MB of data... How is the data interpreted ?

Think in terms of the Quake .pak files, simple large archives of the game's resources which the engine opens and extracts what is needed into memory so that it can be loaded into the game.

>>How can there be rendering if there is no DX or OpenGL ?

Though I'm not sure on the specifications for the PSX's rendering API, it most likely has something similar in respect to d3d and ogl.

>>How do they compile the code written in what ?

They build the game on PC's, they compile the game with specialized compilers made to create executables which will run on the PSX's chipset. While they obviously do not use VC++, they could be using something similar to it which was developed by Sony for its console developers. As for the language, you can bet its c/c++.

[edited by - neurokaotix on February 9, 2003 9:02:15 AM]

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You forgot that part about needing a special PS or PS2 to develope on. Basically (as i understood) you could just slip a rw in it. could just keep recompiling it.
Maybe my info was wrong...

If you search the internet long enough im almost POSITIVE there was a entire site deticated on how to build a ps2 game.


maybe im just completely off

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I hear that Metrowerks'' CodeWarrior software can program PS2 games. Check out their site. However I''m pretty sure it only runs on Macintosh computers, but you can look.

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Yes I got all that..though I`m not gonna write a PSX/2 game... The Big question is : Why is it so hard to convert the PS2 source into a PC exe ?
P.S:I`m actually thinking why Squaresoft won`t release PS2 games on PC (FFX,FFX-2,FFXII),they say it`s hard to convert but it`s about the money...they probably want only the PS2 market because they`re cracked harder,unlike the PC market...

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I doubt its all as crazy hard as they make it out to be, they''re all professional programmers. But then, that might be true, maybe there isn''t enough of a money insentive for them to make the port. Like you said, PS2 games seem to be pirated less than those on the PC.

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With the exception of Vice city and a few other games, MOST ps2 games would suck on the computer. Considered to most computer games, there is not enough options nor levels that are big enough.

Take MSG2 for example. GREAT GAME! dont get me wrong, it was awesome. But you could really play that on a computer? They would HAVE to add a whole mission at least. Its mostly movies, people dont like that when they buy a computer game.

Look at the most popular games. Diablo II, WarCraft 3, MorrowWind. What do these games have in common? the VAST number of things you can do. diablo has all the weapons, and 7 characters to master. Warcraft 3 has a very advanced map editor to make that game into ANY game you want, with the right determination. MorrowWind, WOW, huge huge huge game. Kinda like vice city, you dont really have to follow the plot and some what, like 12 characters to try?. All these games have the almost unlimited replay value.

Although it goes back to money, PS2 developers would have to spend ALOT of extra time making the games more...customizable for them to hit big or at least hit at all on a computer. Today, the ability to modify aspects of games is greatly admired. Even the less popular like GhostRecon have there OWN spot to load a mod in. Its just how games are today, and because the PS2 was not designed to let the user modify the games, porting them would be worthless, money wise and time wise.

Just my opinion. Although, think of all the computer games that hit it big on consol systems Like Starcraft and C&C. Think it would be any better? I rest my case.

P.S. yes, GTA is the exception, mostly because it origionally hit on the computer anyways.

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Converting PS2 games to PC is harder because you have to code for a variable. Where as a PS2 you know what hardware yor game will run on. DX and OGL are supposed to be the translator so there is no variable, but there are also alot of other things. I did some coding for my Dreamcast. I wrote my code with special addresses for things liek memory, video etc. www.dcemulation.com is where i got the info to do it.

You can compile code written on your PC and use a tool to get it over to a PSX binary and you can run it on your PS2. It is NOT as hard as people make it sound. If i still had it i''d post the code to my Dreamcast app. It was written in C and was just the old cube that spins, but I used a 3d library someone made.

If you ar einterested in learning about cosole programming I suggest searching the net. Again, IT IS NOT AS HARD AS IT SOUNDS! Only difference is finding the correct tools and learning the memory mapping stuff.

Dustin Davis
Owner / CEO
Programmers Unlimited
www.Programmers-Unlimited.com

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Programming psx games isnt too bad. Officially, you''d need a blue playstation/net yaroze with all the pc tools. But you can get away with a

1st/2nd generation PSX,
a cheat cartridge with parallel in,
a cheap PC comms card,
a male - female parallel cable,
and the freeware unofficial tools for the pc (such as GCC compiler)

There is also quite a lot of info out there on getting started (no "hello world" which I could find though ^_^ )

The thing about porting PS2 games, is that all the good ones (which you dont often see ported - in a reasonable amount of time anyway), use the vector units. Essentially, with the emotion engine, VU0 and VU1, your''e essentially having to balance graphics, sound, AI etc over 3 processors.... Which isnt easy ^_^

And dont get me started on the GFX programming, sending packets to the GPU and such... Although there is a middleware OpenGL availible though ^_^

So porting a game from the PS2 which utilises all the features, is likely to involve a complete re-write of almost ALL the code from scratch. I gave up on it ages ago ^_^

Transformers Rulez!!

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quote:
Original post by DarkHunter
With the exception of Vice city and a few other games, MOST ps2 games would suck on the computer. Considered to most computer games, there is not enough options nor levels that are big enough.

Take MSG2 for example. GREAT GAME! dont get me wrong, it was awesome. But you could really play that on a computer? They would HAVE to add a whole mission at least. Its mostly movies, people dont like that when they buy a computer game.

Look at the most popular games. Diablo II, WarCraft 3, MorrowWind. What do these games have in common? the VAST number of things you can do. diablo has all the weapons, and 7 characters to master. Warcraft 3 has a very advanced map editor to make that game into ANY game you want, with the right determination. MorrowWind, WOW, huge huge huge game. Kinda like vice city, you dont really have to follow the plot and some what, like 12 characters to try?. All these games have the almost unlimited replay value.

Although it goes back to money, PS2 developers would have to spend ALOT of extra time making the games more...customizable for them to hit big or at least hit at all on a computer. Today, the ability to modify aspects of games is greatly admired. Even the less popular like GhostRecon have there OWN spot to load a mod in. Its just how games are today, and because the PS2 was not designed to let the user modify the games, porting them would be worthless, money wise and time wise.

Just my opinion. Although, think of all the computer games that hit it big on consol systems Like Starcraft and C&C. Think it would be any better? I rest my case.

P.S. yes, GTA is the exception, mostly because it origionally hit on the computer anyways.



Or are many games left unported because of the target audience. Games consoles are just that - games consoles. Their purpose is to provide entertainment, and are used by a large range of people. PCs on the other hand are more tools than games machines and are viewed by most as this and are not generally seen as machines to play games with - this is the role of the game console. My guess is that generally the people who play games in a serious way on a PC are the PC buff/experts/geeks. And a vast majority of these people tend to like the games referred to in the quoted post. You will find a wider range and mix of people playing games on the games consoles than those who seriously play games on a PC. Just my thoughts.

I have read that OpenGL is available on the PS2. Does anyone know if thus is a truth or merely a rumour?

Is there a serious flaw in making a game ''generic'' to make it easier to port? Having various libraries on each platform with the same named functions all taking and returning the same parameters/types, but these functions then call more system specific routines (keyboard input, sound, graphics etc). At a guess, similar to the way that OpenGL operates on various platforms. The guts of the game will be the same, keeping the feel the same across the platforms, and there would be no need to recode routines that are system specific. There may be a slight performance reduction, but for games that don''t push the system this would be negligable if at all noticable.

Cheers,
Jeroen

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good point Bigboy, about the varity of people...lol

i never thought of it that way.

What about the next generation consols? is it possible they will be more..."program" friendly?

And i forgot to mention, Playstation does have a way to program on the consol. You can buy a linux (FINALLY) kit. notice its not windows . Seriously, you buy a hard drive, red hat version of linux for the ps2, keyboard, mouse, and you can compile programs. I remember it said tho, it will NOT run any other binary you have precompiled, so im assuming it compiles the binary differently.

I also belive its only avilably in japan, but you can check on that at:
click here


[edit] updated link (like 6 times, damn thing wont work)


[edited by - ThePretender on February 11, 2003 3:51:08 PM]

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quote:
Original post by ThePretender
And i forgot to mention, Playstation does have a way to program on the consol. You can buy a linux (FINALLY) kit. notice its not windows .

...

I also belive its only avilably in japan, but you can check on that at:
click here



It''s available globally now, see the link Linux for PS2. Looking through the PS2 Linux community BBs, it appears that OGL is available on this platform.

Jeroen

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Alright guys, i see alot of incorrect things here. Okay, first, the linux kit is available in Japan, Europe, and USA, i own it(okay, it looks like that was already covered). Next, the Net Yaroze is a black playstation, not blue. Codewarrior for ps2 and ps1 runs on windows, not just mac.

I have not developed for PS1, but here is a rundown of ps2 graphics programming without anytihng like openGL. The ps2 uses its GS (graphics synthesizer) to put graphics to the screen. The hardware and the information stored on it can take commands to draw things like points, lines, sprites, triangles, triangle strips, etc. This is similar to the way openGL works only sending this information to the ps2 is more difficult. As mentioned earlier in this forum you have to send data to many different places. The VU0 and and VU1 are actually part of the emotion engine. One is for high quality model data, and the other is for background images and things like that. YOu basically code physics, AI, and animation to change the vertices in the vu''s and emotion engine, then send that processed data to the GS, which displays it to the screen. I am currently finishing up a tutorial on programming the ps2, it is very detailed and aimed at begginers. See my post on this forum. Also, as someone mentioned, that slus file is all the models, sounds, textures, etc all compressed into one file. The game decompresses it and takes out what it needs.

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