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benjamin bunny

Microsoft quits ARB

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There''s a story in the Register which indicates that Microsoft has resigned from the ARB in order to concentrate on Direct3D. MS have been holding up development of OpenGL for a while now, threatening IP actions against OpenGL 2.0 regarding their shader technology and completely failing to update the now ancient openGL32.dll (which only supports up to 1.1 and shipped originally with Windows95). I''m not sure if this is good news or not. ____________________________________________________________ www.elf-stone.com

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Now that the pink elephant is out of the room maybe things will advance a little quicker. I hope this move isn''t patent related, a la rambus.

"... we should have such an empire for liberty as she has never surveyed since the creation ..."
Thomas Jefferson

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HOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHO
HOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHO

Happy Microsoft quiting to everybody.Now maybe the OpenGL things will go like they shoud and OpenGL will continue to develop normally.This is also good for DirectX too.Once again congratiolations!!!


The PAIN is coming...this summer!!!In cinemas everywhere.

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Good, DirectX and OpenGL should move as far apart as possible. Why have 2 options when they''re both the same?

Besides, now graphics chip makers can concentrate more fully on DX support like they''re supposed to.

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quote:
Original post by Buster
Besides, now graphics chip makers can concentrate more fully on DX support like they're supposed to.


Eh?

EDIT

quote:
Original post by emptyhead
Great! now graphics chip makers can concentrate more fully on OpenGl support like they're supposed to.


[edited by - Shag on March 4, 2003 7:31:42 AM]

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Ah yes, this will really speed up the development of OpenGL now that Microsoft is out of the way, just like how Firewire got to market so much faster that Microsoft+Co's USB *snicker*. We especially won't see patents dragging it down

[edited by - michalson on March 4, 2003 7:43:49 AM]

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This is a good thing, and was about time. The ARB tried to kick out MS a long time ago, but couldn''t due to contractual obligations. Generally, this is a good thing for OpenGL, and will help to speed up new extensions, as well as OpenGL 2.0. Recently, MS did everything they could to slow the ARB down, by veto-ing pretty much every decision. That out of the way, will give the ARB a lot more freedom.

On the other hand, I''m a little concerned about patent issues (those patents SGI should never have sold to MS). If the OpenGL development speeds up considerably, it might become a serious threat to D3D (esp. seing that the OpenGL 2.0 specs are far beyond any DX9), then MS will probably try to bully the ARB using their aquired patents.

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After reading some more posts about this I am really worried that ms got tired of the ''take them down from the inside'' method and are now switching to the tried and true ''sue them to death'' method.

"... we should have such an empire for liberty as she has never surveyed since the creation ..."
Thomas Jefferson

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Guest Anonymous Poster
and what about the new windows??
opengl won''t be supported?!?!?!?

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The world needs OpenGL regardless of whether or not M$ wants it..
The only reason they don''t like it is because they want complete control, which they can never get because there is competition. (I''m downloading linux as we speak.. ;D )
They are computer Nazis. I found it odd they were ever on the ARB to begin with. "Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer" was their motto I suppose..

"Now graphics chip makers can concentrate more fully on DX support like they''re supposed to."
People who don''t use windows can''t use directX, so if chip makers were to design DX-only-optimized chips, like you want, they would be ignoring all the thousands of linux/macOS/BeOS/other operating system users. Don''t see that ever happening..
What about people who want to use opengl? I highly doubt M$ can bully every hardware vendor into not supporting opengl..


"Oh my ! They won''t update OpenGL on windows that often anymore..."
This is nothing new.. They stopped updating OpenGL since what? Windows95?! It''s still updated thru card manufacturers drivers.
They can''t really stop you from installing drivers, can they?! (I wouldn''t put it past them!..)

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"so if chip makers were to design DX-only-optimized chips, like you want ..."

I think you''ll find that the actual manufacturers prefer OpenGL by a long shot. If DX ceased to exist they probably wouldn''t give a monkies!

Those of you that visit the opengl.org forums will be aware that the nvidia guys that go there are definately biased towards OpenGL. Probably the ATI lot too.

It''s safe to assume the OpenGL is here to stay - regardless of Microsoft''s intents.

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quote:
Original post by Shag
Those of you that visit the opengl.org forums will be aware that the nvidia guys that go there are definately biased towards OpenGL.


Seems your understanding of causality is somewhat lacking...



"If there is a God, he is a malign thug."
-- Mark Twain

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Don''t worry I had to look it up too
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=causality
causality
n : the relation between causes and effects

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Guest Anonymous Poster
that means: opengl will be supported on windows indefinatally, doesn''t it?

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LMAO

I understand what the words meant!

I just thought it was a rather pointless post to make - ie no substance whatsoever!

I made a factual comment. He made an anal response.

Bloody Europeans for ya

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From what I understand, OpenGL drivers are more of a bear to implement for hardware manufacturers than DirectX. Mostly because of the strict OpenGL compliance requirements. That''s just what I read somewhere; not sure of the source.

-dizzy

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quote:
Original post by Shag
"so if chip makers were to design DX-only-optimized chips, like you want ..."

I think you''ll find that the actual manufacturers prefer OpenGL by a long shot. If DX ceased to exist they probably wouldn''t give a monkies!

Those of you that visit the opengl.org forums will be aware that the nvidia guys that go there are definately biased towards OpenGL. Probably the ATI lot too.



A lot of the nvidia guys were poached from SGI, which goes some way to explaining the bias. There''s also the fact that vendors would probably rather not have MS dictate every new feature to them. With OpenGL, they decide (through the ARB) which features get added, and OpenGL''s extension mechanism means they can add new features instantly if they want to. OpenGL isn''t going anywhere.

The danger is that MS can take legal action to cripple the programmable part of OpenGL 2.0 (its key feature). The timing of the resignation does not look good.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
quote:
Original post by Shag
LMAO

I understand what the words meant!

I just thought it was a rather pointless post to make - ie no substance whatsoever!

I made a factual comment. He made an anal response.

Bloody Europeans for ya




Since you just don''t get it, I''ll explain.

It''s the opengl.org forums, so isn''t it more likely the nVidia guys that like openGL go there? And presumably the nVidia guys that like D3D (and who may or may not outnumber the OGL nVidians) go to some other forum?

You''re assuming a causal relationship that doesn''t exist.

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quote:

Can M$ (or anyone else) actually pattent the idea of vertex/pixel fragments programming?


They didn''t. SGI did a long time ago. And MS bought the patents from SGI.

But the whole thing is not as simple. You cannot really patent the process of pixelshading, the whole issue is more on small details of the technique. Probably, that means that the OpenGL 2.0 specs will have to be modified somewhat (SL syntax, etc). The new GLSLANG doscument released a week ago goes very much in that direction (ie. lots of syntactical differences to DX9 HLSL). Which, of course, will make intercompatibility between shaders much more difficult. Blame it onto MS (as so often).

And don''t worry, OpenGL will not go. Losing OpenGL on Windows means losing the whole professional CGI industry (who works exclusively on OpenGL) to Sun/SGI/Apple. I don''t think MS wants that.

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A lot of nVidia employees, as well as originals, are actually ex-employees of SGI, which is one of the reasons for the bias towards OpenGL.

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