I know countermagick from White Wolf''s Mage: The Ascension; table-top RPG. In that system magic was completely open-ended (sadly, it can never be implemented in a computer game). But you could perform countermagick; if you had at least one point in each sphere of reality being affected by the opponant mage, you would see it coming (much as a martial artist can predict the moves of someone using a style that they know), and attempt to counter it.
There are many ways you could implement counter magick, but what it needs to do is allow for balance. Make it so that a moderately powerful magician of certain type can overcome a superior magician of another type.
Hence, you could make magic rare and all powerful, because if you needed to take out a god-like mage, you could go off and find the countermagick or something. It''s difficult to explain, because the M:TA system falls apart if you realy on controlled situations.
Magic Alternatives?
I kinda like the Shadowrun approach to drain.
Whenever you use magic you take energy from some other plane(world, whatever) and form it into a pattern, channelling it through your body.
When u use more powerful spells more energy has to flow through your body, this means that magic has two nasty ends.
Concentrate too hard and you´ll get a nosebleed but trying to fry your enemies with a maxxed out lightning inferno will probably burn your hands to crisp in the process.
I´d also suggest using something different than fixed, predefined spells. Magic should be partially uncontrollable and definitely largely unresearched.
Let things go wrong from time to time.
PS: read Earnest Adams´ article on magic somewhere at
www.gamasutra.com
Whenever you use magic you take energy from some other plane(world, whatever) and form it into a pattern, channelling it through your body.
When u use more powerful spells more energy has to flow through your body, this means that magic has two nasty ends.
Concentrate too hard and you´ll get a nosebleed but trying to fry your enemies with a maxxed out lightning inferno will probably burn your hands to crisp in the process.
I´d also suggest using something different than fixed, predefined spells. Magic should be partially uncontrollable and definitely largely unresearched.
Let things go wrong from time to time.
PS: read Earnest Adams´ article on magic somewhere at
www.gamasutra.com
Author
Nazrix, I couldn''t have put it better than that post did. Everybody, if you can''t understand what I''m saying, READ THAT ARTICLE! Hell, read it if you do understand!
Heh - Cool article 
Just imagine - a starting party in D&D.
Fighter swings at the goblin - 1point of damage.
Wizard starts casting fireball.
Thief stabs at goblin - 2 points of damage.
Wizard - "ahhh, guys?"
Fighter swings at goblin - misses - "Yeah, what?"
Wizard (straining) - "We, ahhh, we might have a prob-"
- Huge ball of fire erupts from the ground, enveloping thief, fighter and goblin. Eventually burns out leaving nothing but charred corpses -
Wizard - "Never mind"
Regards,
WhiteWolf
Just imagine - a starting party in D&D.
Fighter swings at the goblin - 1point of damage.
Wizard starts casting fireball.
Thief stabs at goblin - 2 points of damage.
Wizard - "ahhh, guys?"
Fighter swings at goblin - misses - "Yeah, what?"
Wizard (straining) - "We, ahhh, we might have a prob-"
- Huge ball of fire erupts from the ground, enveloping thief, fighter and goblin. Eventually burns out leaving nothing but charred corpses -
Wizard - "Never mind"
Regards,
WhiteWolf
I gotta blatantly plug what i think are the two best magic systems around.
1.)SHADOWRUN, everytime you cast a spell it tires you out unless you make a successful test against it. BUT, as you increase the spell power, the drain becomes larger and harder to handle, to the point where you can pretty much just fall to the ground asleep(not good in the middle of a street brawl, lemme tell ya'').
and
2.)Wheel of Time, overlooked, but the way its done is interesting. None of this, magic is everywhere, it is a single force of power. Nahh, none of that, magic is woven(cast), using the 5 types of it(Spirit, Fire,Air,Earth,Water), the way you weave it and in what quantities determines what happens. BUT(gotta love the catches), the genders can''t draw from the same "type" of magic, Females have a generally more passive and seducing type, where to cast, they have to learn to surrender to the ''magic'' but if they begin to love weaving too much, they will draw TOO MUCH and burn them selves out(can''t cast anymore), or simply burn themselves into a toasty pillar.
Males, on the other hand, have the more aggressive and dominating side of the ''magic'', they have to fight every second they hold it or it will destroy them. Also, males go crazy from continual use of it.
Anyway, just answering the question
-Run_The_Shadows
-Run_The_Shadows@excite.com
1.)SHADOWRUN, everytime you cast a spell it tires you out unless you make a successful test against it. BUT, as you increase the spell power, the drain becomes larger and harder to handle, to the point where you can pretty much just fall to the ground asleep(not good in the middle of a street brawl, lemme tell ya'').
and
2.)Wheel of Time, overlooked, but the way its done is interesting. None of this, magic is everywhere, it is a single force of power. Nahh, none of that, magic is woven(cast), using the 5 types of it(Spirit, Fire,Air,Earth,Water), the way you weave it and in what quantities determines what happens. BUT(gotta love the catches), the genders can''t draw from the same "type" of magic, Females have a generally more passive and seducing type, where to cast, they have to learn to surrender to the ''magic'' but if they begin to love weaving too much, they will draw TOO MUCH and burn them selves out(can''t cast anymore), or simply burn themselves into a toasty pillar.
Males, on the other hand, have the more aggressive and dominating side of the ''magic'', they have to fight every second they hold it or it will destroy them. Also, males go crazy from continual use of it.
Anyway, just answering the question
-Run_The_Shadows
-Run_The_Shadows@excite.com
Thinking about wands, amulets, etc. these items could be created by casting a spell "through" an inert object.
For example:
If you get a stick or staff off the ground, you could cast, say, a fire spell through it. The stick would have a capacitance affect and make the spell stronger each time you use it. Different materials could work better with different spells. Perhaps some materials could even affect how the spell works. If you cast a fire spell through a diamond, the fire would be invisible and perhaps hotter and the enemy would walk right into it.
If you want to get complex, you could allow the user to create their own amulets by combining materials. Maybe it they buy a diamond from a store(invisible,hot fire), put it in a gold bracket (good magic conductor), and attach that to a stick(good magic capacitance), you could have a powerfull weapon. But you''d still have to practice with it before the staff became a good conductor of magic for that spell.
Also, working that way, you''d have to watch what you use for what. The diamond would be expensive and if you use it with the wood, it might be less usefull for other spells that don''t combine well with wood. If you dissasemble your staff to use the diamond for something else, the staff would loose it''s magical properties.
E:cb woof!
For example:
If you get a stick or staff off the ground, you could cast, say, a fire spell through it. The stick would have a capacitance affect and make the spell stronger each time you use it. Different materials could work better with different spells. Perhaps some materials could even affect how the spell works. If you cast a fire spell through a diamond, the fire would be invisible and perhaps hotter and the enemy would walk right into it.
If you want to get complex, you could allow the user to create their own amulets by combining materials. Maybe it they buy a diamond from a store(invisible,hot fire), put it in a gold bracket (good magic conductor), and attach that to a stick(good magic capacitance), you could have a powerfull weapon. But you''d still have to practice with it before the staff became a good conductor of magic for that spell.
Also, working that way, you''d have to watch what you use for what. The diamond would be expensive and if you use it with the wood, it might be less usefull for other spells that don''t combine well with wood. If you dissasemble your staff to use the diamond for something else, the staff would loose it''s magical properties.
E:cb woof!
quote: Original post by Run_The_Shadows
2.)Wheel of Time, overlooked, but the way its done is interesting. None of this, magic is everywhere, it is a single force of power. Nahh, none of that, magic is woven(cast), using the 5 types of it(Spirit, Fire,Air,Earth,Water), the way you weave it and in what quantities determines what happens. BUT(gotta love the catches), the genders can't draw from the same "type" of magic, Females have a generally more passive and seducing type, where to cast, they have to learn to surrender to the 'magic' but if they begin to love weaving too much, they will draw TOO MUCH and burn them selves out(can't cast anymore), or simply burn themselves into a toasty pillar.
Males, on the other hand, have the more aggressive and dominating side of the 'magic', they have to fight every second they hold it or it will destroy them. Also, males go crazy from continual use of it.
Anyway, just answering the question
A few (thousand
) questions: How does that system work into the game? I haven't played WoT yet, so I'm curious. Is it just part of the back story or maybe a plot device? Or does it actually have an effect on the player? Also, can your character go crazy from using too much magic? How would they do that? And if you lost the magic powers, wouldn't that make the game virtually unprogresible? (I'm guessing that use of magic is probably neccasary to complete the game)quote: Original post by dog135
Thinking about wands, amulets, etc. these items could be created by casting a spell "through" an inert object.
Heh, thats how I was thinking of making the magic work in my own game.
(Except for I hadn't really thought of how the material would effect the magic -- thats a really interesting idea)--TheGoop
Edited by - TheGoop on May 30, 2000 1:39:13 PM
I don''t understand why would someone get ''tired'' because of casting a spell?
In most games the hero finds books of magic,wands,scrolls and other stuff that give him the ability to cast different spells.So his magic power depends on the item he holds or he has read,and not directly on his body resources.After all the spell uses mostly mental powers and not physical.
I also agree that there should be mystery on magic powers.
I hate it when the hero just holds a book and he instantly posseses a spell.There should be some difficulty for someone to cast a spell and it should get easier to use by time.I mean when you gain a spell''s knowledge from a book,the first time you cast it the effects should not be outstanding due to lack of experience and/or training on this specific spell.The more times you use it the most effective it will be.
Also,about the casting limitations,i believe they should only affect your magic stamina(mana usually) and not your physical strength.
And finally,i may be wrong...
After all it is just my opinion
Voodoo4
In most games the hero finds books of magic,wands,scrolls and other stuff that give him the ability to cast different spells.So his magic power depends on the item he holds or he has read,and not directly on his body resources.After all the spell uses mostly mental powers and not physical.
I also agree that there should be mystery on magic powers.
I hate it when the hero just holds a book and he instantly posseses a spell.There should be some difficulty for someone to cast a spell and it should get easier to use by time.I mean when you gain a spell''s knowledge from a book,the first time you cast it the effects should not be outstanding due to lack of experience and/or training on this specific spell.The more times you use it the most effective it will be.
Also,about the casting limitations,i believe they should only affect your magic stamina(mana usually) and not your physical strength.
And finally,i may be wrong...
After all it is just my opinion
Voodoo4
VooDoo4, that''s one reason I like my idea. When you try to cast a spell without a wand/staff/whatever the effect would be quite insignificant. A fire spell without using a wand would only do maybe 1 point of damage. Only through using the spell over and over can it become more powerfull.
I also think your "mana" level should be specific to the spell, not just over all. Although you should have an overall "learning curve" which increases the more spells you''re good at. With a higher "learning curve" you could start off a little more powerfull with a new spell and become more powerfull with it the more you use it. It''d be fun tieing in all the variables needed for a good magic program.
damage=learningCurve*spell.spellMana*currentWand.wandStrength(spell)
Or something like that.
Kind of makes me wish I was into RPGs. But I''m not. I''ll never use my ideas in a game so I''d be honored if someone else would.
E:cb woof!
I also think your "mana" level should be specific to the spell, not just over all. Although you should have an overall "learning curve" which increases the more spells you''re good at. With a higher "learning curve" you could start off a little more powerfull with a new spell and become more powerfull with it the more you use it. It''d be fun tieing in all the variables needed for a good magic program.
damage=learningCurve*spell.spellMana*currentWand.wandStrength(spell)
Or something like that.
Kind of makes me wish I was into RPGs. But I''m not. I''ll never use my ideas in a game so I''d be honored if someone else would.
E:cb woof!
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