MTT hit it right on the nose, somewhat =)
The difference lies in the fact that as a character levels he does not gain the ability to take more hits: that broadsword is still a deadly weapon. However, as the character levels he gains the ability to avoid getting hit at all: he gets better at evading, parrying, rolling away blows, etc.
I''m currently in the process of rethinking my skill system though, so I can''t really give solid examples.
But suffice to say that a grandmaster swordsman will have every advantage in the battle, and a single untrained goblin should have little to no chance against him. 50 goblins, though...
Realistic RPGs?
I think i'm going to organize my rant into somthing more professional so that my ideas are a little more clear.
///////////////////////
///SKILL SYSTEMS///////
///////////////////////
Weapon: These are items that you attack with. Your weapon skill guages go up with every successfull hit. Every weapon has a weight rating light/medium/heavy. The heavier the weopon the slower the swing speed, incresing the enimies chance to block.
Sword - Accuracy and speed up with every level. 1h and 2h. Lv 10 dual wield 1h swords, Lv 20 dual wield with 2h swords (may also wield 1 in just 1 hand).
Axe - Accuracy and speed up with every level. 1h and 2h. Lv 10 dual wield 1h swords, Lv 20 dual wield with 2h swords (may also wield just 1 in 1 hand).
Polearm - Accuracy and speed up with every level. 2h. Player may be positioned up to 4 sqares from the enimie he is attaking without increasing enimies blocking chances.
Unarmed - Acuuracy and speed up with every level. 2h. Requires no weapon.
Bow - Accuracy and speed up with every level. 2h. Lv 1-4 may shoot from up to 5 sqares away from target Lv 5-9 player may shoot from 7 sqares away from enemie. lv 10+ player may shoot target from 10 sqares away. Lv 20+ player can shoot target from any number of sqares away. Note: bow is harder to block than javalin.
Javalin - Accuracy and speed up with every level. 2h. Lv 1-4 may shoot from up to 5 sqares away from target Lv 5-9 player may shoot from 7 sqares away from enemie. lv 10+ player may shoot target from 10 sqares away. Lv 20+ player can shoot target from any number of sqares away. Note: bow is harder to block than javalin.
Others - ???
Armour: There is head armour and body armour. The types of head armour are caps and full-faced. Caps do not have as good of chance of stopping fatal attacks as full faced. Full faced decreases your accuracy. The types of body armour are cloth/leather/chain/plate, The lower on the list the worse chance of stopping fatal attacks. The higher on the list the more it decreases your speed. Your skill guage for armour and helm increase in fullness after each battle you fight that they are equipted in.
Cloth - Increases chance to stop fatal torso atacks on levels. No requrements. No speed penalty.
Leather - Increases chance to stop fatal torso atacks on levels. Lv 5 cloth req. Small speed penalty.
Chain - Increases chance to stop fatal torso atacks on levels. Lv 10 leather req. Medium speed penalty.
Plate - Increases chance to stop fatal torso atacks on levels. Lv 20 chain required. Large speed penalty.
Cap - Increases chance to stop fatal head attacks on levels. No requirements. Small acc penalty.
Full-Faced - Increases chance to stop fatal head attacks on levels. Lv 10 cap req. Large acc penalty.
other - ???
Magic: These are either ranged atacks, summons, or enchantments. These spells use up mana points. The skill guage becomes fuller after each cast. The types of magic are elemaental and holy. Ranged attacks are spells that directly damage enimies or heal party members, summons are creatures that fight with you for either a limited number of turns or until they die, enchantment give enhance players, summons, or items stats for a limited number of turns. The magic system requires alot more work.
Elemantal - Spells learnable increased after each level. Maximum 5(?) diffent spells of this type can be known at one time. Attacks include all 3 types. Strong focus on dealing damage.
Holy - Spells learnable increased after each level. Spells learnable increased after each level. Maximum 5(?) diffent spells of this type can be known at one time. Attacks include all 3 types. Strong focus on protecting from damage.
Other: Other skills.
Block left/right - this is the shield skill and must be learned seperatly with each arm. Levels up increase chance of blocking and weight of shield equipable. The heavier the shield the bigger speed penalty. Skill guage goes up with each block.
Evade - This skill is dodging atacks. Levels increase the chance to dodge an attack. Skill guage increases with each evade.
Arm str left/right - This skill must be learned seperatly with each arm unless 2 handed weapon is equipted. Increases the swing speed with each level. L 10 requrired fow 1h weapon dual wielding, Lv 20 required for 2h weapon duel wielding.
Each skill gets a level once its skill guage is full, the guage then emptys again.
Stats:
Speed - As speed increases chance to evade increases.
Swing speed - As swing speed increases the chance that the enimy will block or evade decreases.
Acc - As accuracy increases chance to hit enemy increases. % chance to hit.
Chance to block - % chance to block an attack
Chance to evade - % chance to evade
Limbs:
Arms - Lowers acc and swing speed of attacks on weapons. Lowers chance to block with shields. Note: if an arm is disabled nothing may be wielded in in, 2h weapons must have neither arm disabled to use.
Legs - Lowers speed and evade. Note: If both legs are disabled chance to evade = 0 and your charecter cannot attack with non-polearm melee wepons unless directly touching the enimie he/she is attacking's sqare. Polearms can have 3 sqares between Enimie and charecter.
Torso and head - Charecter dies if fatal hit is executed on these parts (not stopped by armour).
Note on items:
Items would be diablo-like in their stats. Dont know what the diablo items are like? Diabloii.net
////////////////
//MAP SYSTEM////
////////////////
In the start menu You would be able to change around how your players would be set up on the battle field when the battles started. The further you get from the enemie, the lower the chance he will attack you, the greater chance you will block or evade the atack, the greater the chance he/she will block or evade your atack, and if it is a ranged atack the lower your acc (otherwise you charge up and hit them). This works in reverse the closer you get.
EDIT: This might look sortov like final fantasy tactics but i picture it more just like a customizable player setup on a regular battle screen, kindov like breath of fire 2 but more customizable.
Well those are my thoughts on what a good setup would be for your idea. Some parts of it could/should/would have to changed/elaborated but i would say it is a good system.
[edited by - MTT on April 21, 2003 9:28:01 PM]
[edited by - MTT on April 22, 2003 1:29:55 AM]
///////////////////////
///SKILL SYSTEMS///////
///////////////////////
Weapon: These are items that you attack with. Your weapon skill guages go up with every successfull hit. Every weapon has a weight rating light/medium/heavy. The heavier the weopon the slower the swing speed, incresing the enimies chance to block.
Sword - Accuracy and speed up with every level. 1h and 2h. Lv 10 dual wield 1h swords, Lv 20 dual wield with 2h swords (may also wield 1 in just 1 hand).
Axe - Accuracy and speed up with every level. 1h and 2h. Lv 10 dual wield 1h swords, Lv 20 dual wield with 2h swords (may also wield just 1 in 1 hand).
Polearm - Accuracy and speed up with every level. 2h. Player may be positioned up to 4 sqares from the enimie he is attaking without increasing enimies blocking chances.
Unarmed - Acuuracy and speed up with every level. 2h. Requires no weapon.
Bow - Accuracy and speed up with every level. 2h. Lv 1-4 may shoot from up to 5 sqares away from target Lv 5-9 player may shoot from 7 sqares away from enemie. lv 10+ player may shoot target from 10 sqares away. Lv 20+ player can shoot target from any number of sqares away. Note: bow is harder to block than javalin.
Javalin - Accuracy and speed up with every level. 2h. Lv 1-4 may shoot from up to 5 sqares away from target Lv 5-9 player may shoot from 7 sqares away from enemie. lv 10+ player may shoot target from 10 sqares away. Lv 20+ player can shoot target from any number of sqares away. Note: bow is harder to block than javalin.
Others - ???
Armour: There is head armour and body armour. The types of head armour are caps and full-faced. Caps do not have as good of chance of stopping fatal attacks as full faced. Full faced decreases your accuracy. The types of body armour are cloth/leather/chain/plate, The lower on the list the worse chance of stopping fatal attacks. The higher on the list the more it decreases your speed. Your skill guage for armour and helm increase in fullness after each battle you fight that they are equipted in.
Cloth - Increases chance to stop fatal torso atacks on levels. No requrements. No speed penalty.
Leather - Increases chance to stop fatal torso atacks on levels. Lv 5 cloth req. Small speed penalty.
Chain - Increases chance to stop fatal torso atacks on levels. Lv 10 leather req. Medium speed penalty.
Plate - Increases chance to stop fatal torso atacks on levels. Lv 20 chain required. Large speed penalty.
Cap - Increases chance to stop fatal head attacks on levels. No requirements. Small acc penalty.
Full-Faced - Increases chance to stop fatal head attacks on levels. Lv 10 cap req. Large acc penalty.
other - ???
Magic: These are either ranged atacks, summons, or enchantments. These spells use up mana points. The skill guage becomes fuller after each cast. The types of magic are elemaental and holy. Ranged attacks are spells that directly damage enimies or heal party members, summons are creatures that fight with you for either a limited number of turns or until they die, enchantment give enhance players, summons, or items stats for a limited number of turns. The magic system requires alot more work.
Elemantal - Spells learnable increased after each level. Maximum 5(?) diffent spells of this type can be known at one time. Attacks include all 3 types. Strong focus on dealing damage.
Holy - Spells learnable increased after each level. Spells learnable increased after each level. Maximum 5(?) diffent spells of this type can be known at one time. Attacks include all 3 types. Strong focus on protecting from damage.
Other: Other skills.
Block left/right - this is the shield skill and must be learned seperatly with each arm. Levels up increase chance of blocking and weight of shield equipable. The heavier the shield the bigger speed penalty. Skill guage goes up with each block.
Evade - This skill is dodging atacks. Levels increase the chance to dodge an attack. Skill guage increases with each evade.
Arm str left/right - This skill must be learned seperatly with each arm unless 2 handed weapon is equipted. Increases the swing speed with each level. L 10 requrired fow 1h weapon dual wielding, Lv 20 required for 2h weapon duel wielding.
Each skill gets a level once its skill guage is full, the guage then emptys again.
Stats:
Speed - As speed increases chance to evade increases.
Swing speed - As swing speed increases the chance that the enimy will block or evade decreases.
Acc - As accuracy increases chance to hit enemy increases. % chance to hit.
Chance to block - % chance to block an attack
Chance to evade - % chance to evade
Limbs:
Arms - Lowers acc and swing speed of attacks on weapons. Lowers chance to block with shields. Note: if an arm is disabled nothing may be wielded in in, 2h weapons must have neither arm disabled to use.
Legs - Lowers speed and evade. Note: If both legs are disabled chance to evade = 0 and your charecter cannot attack with non-polearm melee wepons unless directly touching the enimie he/she is attacking's sqare. Polearms can have 3 sqares between Enimie and charecter.
Torso and head - Charecter dies if fatal hit is executed on these parts (not stopped by armour).
Note on items:
Items would be diablo-like in their stats. Dont know what the diablo items are like? Diabloii.net
////////////////
//MAP SYSTEM////
////////////////
____________________|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_||_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_||_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_||_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_||_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_||_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_||_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_| Enemies |Players Side |Side | In the start menu You would be able to change around how your players would be set up on the battle field when the battles started. The further you get from the enemie, the lower the chance he will attack you, the greater chance you will block or evade the atack, the greater the chance he/she will block or evade your atack, and if it is a ranged atack the lower your acc (otherwise you charge up and hit them). This works in reverse the closer you get.
EDIT: This might look sortov like final fantasy tactics but i picture it more just like a customizable player setup on a regular battle screen, kindov like breath of fire 2 but more customizable.
Well those are my thoughts on what a good setup would be for your idea. Some parts of it could/should/would have to changed/elaborated but i would say it is a good system.
[edited by - MTT on April 21, 2003 9:28:01 PM]
[edited by - MTT on April 22, 2003 1:29:55 AM]
quote:Original post by ElAntonius
The system is in relation to an action rpg...I shuld have clarified that.
Therefore, a player is somewhat responsible for the evasion of attacks, though their statistics affect these things also. I''m aiming for a battle system that lies somewhere in between Morrowind (click click stats based combat) and Blade of Darkness (combo based action game)
Moo.
I dunno all of your ideas but I think it would proabably work better in a non-action rpg. Just my opinion though, might be different if i knew full details.
Author
I disagree...I think that in order for a hardcore wounding system to exist the player must be given some control of his own combat or it will be entirely up to some random numbers.
I''m trying to streamline my skill system into something that makes more sense right now...but I''ll use the evade skill as an example right now.
Player A has a very low level evade. When he commands his avatar to evade, the distance travelled and speed of the evade will be very low.
Player B, on the other hand, has a very high evade skill. His character can travel very quickly and for longer distances, meaning he can avoid faster blows and be in a better position for a counterattack.
In both instances though, the player is required to time his evasion properly, or it will have no effect.
Moo.
I''m trying to streamline my skill system into something that makes more sense right now...but I''ll use the evade skill as an example right now.
Player A has a very low level evade. When he commands his avatar to evade, the distance travelled and speed of the evade will be very low.
Player B, on the other hand, has a very high evade skill. His character can travel very quickly and for longer distances, meaning he can avoid faster blows and be in a better position for a counterattack.
In both instances though, the player is required to time his evasion properly, or it will have no effect.
Moo.
I agree with ElAntonius that his system needs to involve the player in using the character''s defensive skills rather than just having defense happen automatically - at least if his system is going to be distinguishable from a (minimally modified) straight HP system...
After all, in a non-action RPG, consider the three sequences of events:
A) Enemy broadsword comes at character who automatically dodges and loses 10 dodge points. Later attacks reduce him to 0 points after which the next attack cripples or kills.
B) Enemy broadsword comes at character who automatically dodges and loses 10 hit points. Later attacks reduce him to 0 points after which the next attack cripples or kills.
C) Enemy broadsword comes at character who takes the blow without flinching and loses 10 hit points. Later attacks reduce him to 0 points after which the next attack cripples or kills.
From the player''s viewpoint, the only difference between A and B is the name of the type of points lost. The difference between B and C is in interpretation and probably comes down to B''s coders having more time for character animations to show the dodging...
I still feel that, at the usual RPG level of abstraction, this distinction is purely a question of cosmetic interpretation. Of course, now I have a better idea what ElAntonius has in mind, for his system the distinction is significant. I''m afraid I feel strongly about the common misconception that the traditional D&D HP system represents the ability to take a sword through the chest repeatedly (at high level) and keep fighting - the standard interpretation used in p/p RPGs is that HP represent "papercut" style wounds (at least until the last half-dozen or so) and the ability to just avoid taking a lethal hit.
On a different note, polearms generally have an effective minimum range - or at least a range within which they''re (much) less effective. If polearms are effective out to 4 squares, they should lose effectiveness for 1 and perhaps 2 squares distance - a pike makes a poor quarterstaff!
After all, in a non-action RPG, consider the three sequences of events:
A) Enemy broadsword comes at character who automatically dodges and loses 10 dodge points. Later attacks reduce him to 0 points after which the next attack cripples or kills.
B) Enemy broadsword comes at character who automatically dodges and loses 10 hit points. Later attacks reduce him to 0 points after which the next attack cripples or kills.
C) Enemy broadsword comes at character who takes the blow without flinching and loses 10 hit points. Later attacks reduce him to 0 points after which the next attack cripples or kills.
From the player''s viewpoint, the only difference between A and B is the name of the type of points lost. The difference between B and C is in interpretation and probably comes down to B''s coders having more time for character animations to show the dodging...
quote:
Original post by ElAntonius
The difference lies in the fact that as a character levels he does not gain the ability to take more hits: that broadsword is still a deadly weapon. However, as the character levels he gains the ability to avoid getting hit at all: he gets better at evading, parrying, rolling away blows, etc.
I still feel that, at the usual RPG level of abstraction, this distinction is purely a question of cosmetic interpretation. Of course, now I have a better idea what ElAntonius has in mind, for his system the distinction is significant. I''m afraid I feel strongly about the common misconception that the traditional D&D HP system represents the ability to take a sword through the chest repeatedly (at high level) and keep fighting - the standard interpretation used in p/p RPGs is that HP represent "papercut" style wounds (at least until the last half-dozen or so) and the ability to just avoid taking a lethal hit.
On a different note, polearms generally have an effective minimum range - or at least a range within which they''re (much) less effective. If polearms are effective out to 4 squares, they should lose effectiveness for 1 and perhaps 2 squares distance - a pike makes a poor quarterstaff!
This topic is closed to new replies.
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