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NeoReality

Average age of Game programmers and the speed of technology

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NeoReality    122
Didn''t mean to post that Anonymous Poster. But the sig probally gave me away!

People who make money from games arn''t posting to this because;
1. They are to busy trying to compleate their latest project by the deadline. (not that sarcastic)
2. They are above such a feable discussion.
3. They are fictional characters with no bases in reality. And all these games we play are nothing more than a great big shared illusion!
4. All of the above


It seems most people started about the same age. Twelveish, there must be some ''geek'' hormone released at that time? Well, sitting in front of a glowing monitor sucking the electron radiation like its mothers milk, certainly beats playing Football(1) on a cold,wet english afternoon!

Anyway I''m going to sound like an old man now but to those younger coders out there <16, you lucky blighters! All this wonderful and free information at your fingertips!
"When I was a lad we had to work 28 Hours in the coal mine, get up before we went to bed, my father used to kill us and stamp on our graves...." Ops slipped into a little Monty Python!

Anyway I hope this post will soon get my off initiate!


(1) English football. A large round ball kicked with the feet (hence the name foot-ball). Often played in the middle of winter (and I quote my sports teacher) "Because the ground is softer". It has just frozen solid. You can''t get harder than solid! Being a NON contact sport you can often leave the pitch with serious head wounds, lascerations and broken bones.

What else do you need; besides a miricle.
Money. Lots of Money. or I''ll never do a sequel!

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MadKeithV    992
*grin* OreoBoy, you are indeed funny!

However, I think getting laid is highly overrated. What could compare to squeezing another three cycles out of your inner loop.

(only to find you just broke the compiler optimisation and ended up slowing your code down by about 100%)

Reinforcing some stereotypes:
I''m slightly underweight, only 66.6( )kilos for 1m83, which really isn''t enough.
I''m not a mad coder though, I tend to play guitar and record more often than I''m sitting behind my PC.
I do have a paid job, and it''s paid research. I feel I''ve been really lucky in landing this one, even though I''m making much less than MSc''s my age at the moment. In four years time, I''ll have had a lot of fun researching what I love, gained a PhD, and overtake all those guys in one fell swoop! ( *dreams off, thinking of an Aston Martin, huge mansion in the Carribean islands, and swarms of chicks around..* )

Maybe not, but I''m sure as hell enjoying what I do, old or not ;-)


#pragma DWIM // Do What I Mean!
~ Mad Keith ~

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NeoReality    122
quote:
Original post by granat
Now I´m 25 and I feel I should have been a Guru at this age. But I´m not....



I feel your pain. That horible feeling of wasted years. It''s nice to hear of others that feel like that. I asked my parents to get me an Atari 512. I though getting a 16 Bit machine would make things easier. I was dumb struck to find there was no in built langauge to program with!

There was an aweful basic program that came with it, but nothing else. I felt like I had taken one step forward and two back. With hindsight I persume there music have been C compilers or the like for the Atari, but they were never mentioned in ST Format.

I think I might dig it out and trawl the net to see what is available!

What else do you need; besides a miricle.
Money. Lots of Money. or I''ll never do a sequel!

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Joviex    250
This post is hilarious.

Did everyone forget that all the greats are almost over 30 already?

Let''s doa run down of all those game devers who are still working, and are over the ripe age I mentioned:

Sid Meyer, Peter Molyaneux, D.W. Bradley, Rob Bartel, Chris Taylor, Tom Hall, etc... etc...

Ok, so you say, yeah, but all these guys have established themselves... true, why, because they made kick ass software that the world loves over and over. So it wouldn''t matter if you were 58 or 8 as long as the software has re-playability or "unique to have never been seen before" written all over it, you are golden.

"Five passengers set sail that day, for a three hour tour, a three hour tour...."

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olp-fan    122
I''m 17, about to finish high school, I''ve been programming since i was 10, I know VB/C/C++/Win32/DirectX. Next year I will be developing 3D stuff, but currently I am working on an Online Multiplayer 2D game, in fact, I will be done it very very soon. I like multiplayer games, and since I am about to get my CISCO Networking Certification, I might as well start playing around with it, so that is basically my life experience up to now. Going to University soon, so I am hoping to sell my game by the end of school.

I guess the fact of the matter is, some people are more experienced initially than others, but if you work hard and tone your skills, businesses won''t care if you''re 15 or 60, as long as you can do what they need.


Rock on,
- Tom

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Voodoo4    122
I''m almost 18 and i started programming a year ago.
I thought programming was harsh until my final exams at school started.And it''s not the studing that hurts.It''s the sea,the sun,the chicks that lay on the beach.
How can i write exams until the end of June,can someone tell me?
..........
Nothing to do with programming.I just sighed with relief that i finally said all these.Now let''s study these integrations.....hmmm
Voodoo4

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OreoBoy03    122
MadKeith~

I guess we get turned on by totally different things . For you, its the extra cycles, for me, it's gotta be SEX! And hey, how long have you been rockin' away on the guitar? I just started playing a month ago, but me and my posse and gonna start a band in jr. year. And hey, I have an acoustic right now, but I'm lookin' to get an electric, for say $400. What would you recommend? And does anybody know about crossing over from guitar to bass guitar? Thanx!

Oh, here's something for y'all:
Top Ten Things Men Shouldn't say out loud in Victoria's Secret

10. Does this come in children's sizes?
9. No Thanks. Just Sniffing.
8. I'll be in the dressing room going blind.
7. Mom will love this.
6. Do you have this with a Dallas Cowboys Logo on it?
5. No need to wrap it up, I'll eat it here.
4. Will you model this for me???
3. Oh honey, you'll never squeeze your fat ass into that!
2. 45 bucks?? You're just gonna end up NAKED anyway!!
1. The Miracle What??? This is better than world peace!!

See ya later, I got some guitar lessons to head to, and a huge science paper due tomorrow! My stupid science teacher...I could just...

E: Anon Poster guy, I wanna be a doctor like my old man, or maybe a lifeguard, cuz it's a blast (I've had some experience)! Engineer could be ok...My mom seriously thinks i should be presidential adviser guy when i grow up. Not to brag, but i could probably do it, I'm great with people skills, solving problems, communicating, telling people not to jack off with aides , etc...


Edited by - OreoBoy03 on June 1, 2000 6:11:44 PM

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Voodoo4    122
To OreoBoy:
You remind me of some friends of mine.
They got a guitar and thought the songs would come up like magic.
Don''t rush to form a band.
There was a time in Greece when everyone had an electric and formed bands and thought that by scrathing the guitar they would become Maiden!
Take my advice:Don''t be inpatient.Exercise.

P.S.:These friends of mine now goto the opera
Voodoo4

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NeoReality    122
Tom, you are 17 and nearly ready to be Cisco certified!
God I''m going to give up on life right now! 17 Christ! I''ve heard lots of nasty rumours about the cisco certification exams. Pratical exams where they swap working routers for broken ones during your lunch break!

Cheers OreoBoy. I didn''t know What Victoria''s Sectret was. Joe Burns was talking about they had a webcam on the last show on his HTMLGoodies Newsletter.


How many more posts till I get off initiate??





What else do you need; besides a miricle.
Money. Lots of Money. or I''ll never do a sequel!

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OreoBoy03    122
Neo~
You got 11 posts now, takes 20 to become "dedicated". And you DIDN"T know what Victoria''s Secret was?!? You need to get out more !!!

Voodoo~
I''m only a freshman right now, 2 years is a long time away, and I''m patient. Guitar''s great though. And I do have some ideas for good songs.

Sorry guys, I would attach something funny, but I''m writing this from school as i ignore my comp sci teacher, and can''t say anything too bad. Ciao!

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Moe    1256
I am 16 (17 in about 2 months). I have only been programming >1 year. I know how you feel, because sometimes i feel the same. I have just started to learn DX, and i feel it quite challenging.

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Magicdude    134
Now, I think this is a post I should respond to. I dunno why, just feels right, anyway, I''m 15, and I live in the UK. Now, I dunno about the US, but over here in England, we don''t get these nice books like TOTWGPG or WGPFD in the shops. In fact, you''re lucky if you can find much about programming, maybe a bit about C++ in general, but not applied stuff. Anyway, back when I was 8, I was in Cubs (DON''T LAUGH) and I wanted to get my computer badge. Now I had to do something for it: Write a ...erm... can''t think of what it''s called... ah, prgram, that could add (heaven forbid) 2 numbers together. I had to do this in BASIC. Now what the hell is that I was thinking. So, anyway, my teacher at school was able to help and I got the badge. I continued programming this crap, and on my cruddy old Amiga600, I managed to write text programs (I.e. very BAD games) and eventually got a few graphics in this lovely IDE, AMOS BASIC.

I got a PC, and used QBASIC, not as nice as AMOS though, and stuff was more complex, so I stopped programming. Then, while doing my IT badge in scouts, I heard about this cool programming language called C, I got some books from the bloke teaching me at scouts and learned that.

I tried programmign graphics in C, and couldn''t, somehow, through something completely weird, I managed to find a book called Teach Yourself Game Programming in 21 Days, I bought it. Read it, thought, ''Assmebly Language... What the Hell is that?????'' Used his libraries to make a couple of crap games. Stopped programming.

Then came October 1999, I finally got the internet, and after a while, accidentally stumbled across Gamedev.net, and they had a chat room!!! I went in and started talking, I decided to learn C++, and I picked it up pretty easily, and now my programs are just classes!!

So, for Christmas, I asked my mum to buy me this book from Amazon.com - Tricks of the Windows Game Programming Gurus, and what a book. It was great. I read it, and learned Win32 and DX programming from scratch.

Anyway, now I''m learning OpenGL, and stupid 3D theory. I would LUV to get into the industry, but I fear that I may not be able to. I suppose I''ll just keep trying

PS: I''m not sure, because I can never find a pair of scales, but I think I''m underweight, I mean, people are always saying about how girls starve themselves to get slim because of supermodels. And there''s me, this 15 yr old boy, who is the slimmest thing in the world, sheesh, I stuff my face too

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mbarela    122
Im 24 and have been a professional game programmer for all of 1.5 months!! Woo Hoo! I wouldn't worry about being over the hill, this really is a skill based market. If you practice and tune your skills the industry will be ready for you when you decide to start applying places. Good luck to all you amatuers, keep making games and somebody will notice you eventually. My best advice is, if you really want in the industry never give up. =)



Mike Barela
mbarela@earthlink.net

Edited by - mbarela on June 2, 2000 3:23:57 PM

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Guest Anonymous Poster   
Guest Anonymous Poster
Hahahaha OreoBoy03, you''re thick. Hahahahaha.

Don''t say it''s bad being fat. I''m not personally, but I think gyms are backwards places? fasgko pogklf;sd''kgfl;sd opfgsdkdl;''gkl lf,vs;d'',vl;sv''''aoe;a''kfopa''kgma-]04kl; KFLD;SAF''KDF F,MLR;A''FKD,LG;'',ldkslf;ak''fl; klgf;ad''kgl;.

I think that settles the matter.

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Guest Anonymous Poster   
Guest Anonymous Poster
Ok. . .I missed out on something here??? When I was twelve I did *some* programming (a cheesehead Space Invaders clone in Basic), which is about as far as I got before my teens, which were for the most part spent being an idiot. Then, at eighteen I decided that professional pot smoker is probably not a primo career choice and decided to program. My point is: Does everyone in the world know DirectX at age sixteen? If I can''t do object classes in C without a book at twenty, should I hang the whole thing up and stick to knitting? What''s the deal here?

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Guest Anonymous Poster   
Guest Anonymous Poster
I''m 31 years old, in good physical condition (I work out at a gym regularly.) I''m married with a daughter. Even before I got married, I was getting laid.

I''ve produced 4 major hit titles published by Microsoft and Activision, and the total sales of all of my games is in excess of 1.5 million copies world-wide.

So forget the stereotypes.

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OreoBoy03    122
You''re just special then Anon Poster . No, I know that cool, athletic programmers do exist, like me and you. But there are some really nerdy kids at my school that spend lunch reading books about C++, the big fat kind. That scares the hell out of me! Why not be socializing with the ladies , or hanging with friends (maybe they don''t have any ), or something. If they were really desperate, there''s always that group smoking god knows what outside in the parking lot near the woods... No, cool programmers do exist, like everybody her on GameDev !!! But there are also the really nerd-geek-freak-weird kind of programmers, and they scared me away from ever wanting to be a programmer a long time ago. It''s tragic !!! Gotta run, catch you all later.

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BitBlt    386
I''m 15 and have been programming for a while now. I started with QBasic (didn''t everybody?) and am pretty knowledgable of the DirectX API. I don''t really care about game development as a career but I do it cuz it''s fun. I have no doubt that I''ll be whipping out games when I''m a senior citizens!!! There ain''t nothing stopping me. Just my opinion, if you love what you do, doesn''t matter how old you are.
Oh yeh, OreoBoy - Ever seen Andre Lamothe, he''s pretty buf if you ask me, i make games and am almost a black belt in karate, so i''m not out of shape or anything. Just a thought.

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OreoBoy03    122
BitBlt, that's a cool SN. And hey, EVERYBODY, I NEVER said ALL programmers were fat out-of-shape people. Everybody at GameDev seems cool, and a lot of you guys have told me that you're in shape, I believe you. Only the ones at MS are fat and overweight, or disgustingly skinny! Bill must lock them in there until they produce enough GARBAGE to justify a new version of Windows, and hence, more money for Mr. Gates... Oh hey, does anyone here have AOL IM? I'd love to have a chat with some of you about game development. Let me know, gotta run, Hasta Luego!

E: Guys, I just checked, right now, this topic is the 25th most popular topic of ALL TIME!!! That's wicked. Keep it goin'!!!

Edited by - OreoBoy03 on June 2, 2000 10:11:02 PM

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Hase    313
Well, let´s face it. Most of us are never going to make it big-time. Those that do become fat and ugly (and never get laid).

What a life.



"Age is a question of mind over matter. If you don´t mind, it doesn´t matter"

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GEo    144
Hang on,
I''m 17, I don''t consider myself too unfit / unhealthy (I guess I could use a bit more exercise), I''m crap at math (currently), I have reasonable personal hygene and I drink and smoke.

Does this mean I''m never going to make a game programmer?

(PS: I would love to work on code for gambling machines, that would be fine for me (for a while at least))



George.

"Who says computer games affect kids, imagine if PacMan affected us as kids, we'd all sit around in a darkened room munching pills and listening to repetitive music....uh oh!"

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Joviex    250
quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster

Ok. . .I missed out on something here???

...

My point is: Does everyone in the world know DirectX at age sixteen? If I can''t do object classes in C without a book at twenty, should I hang the whole thing up and stick to knitting? What''s the deal here?


I wouldn''t worry about it honestly. If everyone knew 100% of everything they post around here, there would be no need for a forum.

Just keep in mind how you were at 16 and imagine having all this tech at your fingertips now. I have been programming since I was 12 (integer basic days), so it is not really new that others start so young. I mean, when Taipan and Wizardry are the kick ass games of the day, imagine the inspiration going around now.

It doesn''t mean squat to me, age, or physique, and no, I am not fat, got a beer belly, and I like it so blah. If you read and learn (absorb) all of it, and then apply it cause this ain''t college, then you''ll have no problem getting a job. This industry is skills skills skills. They honestly don''t give a crap if you look like the unibomber (and actually might hire you cause they need a model of your head at that point).

I would stress however, it is not just skills. It is also being able to preform in a team. I have had a few jobs over the years where personality and team orientation won hands down over knowledge -- in some cases they will actually teach you all the necessary skills you need.



"Five passengers set sail that day, for a three hour tour, a three hour tour...."

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Machaira    1033
Guess I''ll add my $.02 to this:

I''m 33, married with one child, in decent shape (6''3", 245 lbs, only little love handles ) and I''ve been in the industry for a little over six months after about 6 years of business programming.

Age isn''t really a barrier to getting into the industry. Movitation and a love of games are what counts. If you''re fairly intelligent and have a decent background in math you shouldn''t have any problem learning what you need to know. After that, make some small demos and start sending out your resume. There are tons of job openings for good people. If you have some decent demos, that''ll count about as much as practical experience.

OK, now that you''re done ready this, go write some code!!

Breakaway Games

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