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Coz

Canceling moves in a fighting game

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Coz    169
Do you think that implementing some sort of "cancel move" button in a fighting game would improve the gameplay? I mean, for example, in a fighting game every move you make takes a certain amount of time. Some take more than others. What if there is a button to stop the move before its takes all the time that is supposed to take? That could make the fight a little more exciting in case you made a move you shouldn''t had done, retreat fast, and pull a quick punch in the right direction! This would be mainly a way of retreating fast from slow moves, but could be used also to fake a move. Maybe there should be a limit in the moment of canceling the move. So if the player''s move is in a step that could be stop suddently it just doesn''t stops, or maybe the longer the player takes to cancel the move, it also takes longer to stop. If you can make a move, hit and cancel fast, this could be used to make combos. Something like this has been implemented in some fighting games like Street Fighter Alpha 2, where you make a move and then the player makes another move that overrides the first by starting the second before the first finishes completely. If there is a limit as I suggested before, and you are supposed to be able to make combos by canceling moves, the limit must be after the time that the move can actually have an effect. This has probably been tought before but I haven''t seen it implemented yet. The most complex fighting game that I remember is Smash Bros. Melee, there you have moving, hits, special moves, bouncing, retreating from crashing with walls, dodging and blocking to take on the fight. Actually this came up from when 2 friends of mine playing the game, were together against someone else but they hit the partner instead of their target, because the target was dodging a lot. If they could stop their moves the would hit the partner less often, so in multiplayer fighting games, this can also be another use of a canceling move button. ----------------------> Nothing in the world is the way it should be; that''s why we, the champions, exist and live for: HOPE.

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fisheyel83l    100
It might be interesting to allow cancels in the same sense that real fights contain "fakes." I think Killer Instinct allowed these to a limited extent, but the idea never took off. Any of the more technical fighting games could implement this idea effectively, as long as it can be incorporated into the combo system. A fake left punch, followed by a quick right jab could open the door to a combo, for instance. However, ideas like this never gain popularity because they are usually TOO technical for a fighting game. No one wants to worry if the incoming attack is an upper-right jab, upper-left jab, mid-right jab...etc, unless they''re playing a boxing game. To avoid this kind of intense, reflex overkill, the system would have to focus on the high-mid-low attack system that every fighting game uses, where a fake can open a window elsewhere on the opponent''s body, or focus on the timing of attacks, as you suggested. Consider the effects of your method, though: Alowing a player to break commitment to an attack seriously detracts from defensive fighting strategies. Some players like waiting for the big guy to lauch his slow-but-powerful attack so they can duck in and connect with a swift kick. Removing that element might turn technical fighters away from your system.

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Coz    169
quote:
Original post by fisheyel83l
However, ideas like this never gain popularity because they are usually TOO technical for a fighting game. No one wants to worry if the incoming attack is an upper-right jab, upper-left jab, mid-right jab...etc, unless they''re playing a boxing game.


As I said before, I took the idea from Smash Bros. Melee, so I will use that game for reference, even tought that it doesn''t use the usual lose by HP to zero system. In this game the range of the moves is a big issue. Players who use swords have longer range than punching characters, and avanced players count that when they see a move comming; they may be able just stand still, crouch or moving foward or backward a little in order to dodge an attack that they know won''t reach them.

In the case of a game like street fighter, an avanced player that is able to see the incoming moves probably can do the same as I said before, but I can''t say taht it can be done because I haven''t seen anyone doing so.

quote:
Consider the effects of your method, though: Alowing a player to break commitment to an attack seriously detracts from defensive fighting strategies. Some players like waiting for the big guy to lauch his slow-but-powerful attack so they can duck in and connect with a swift kick. Removing that element might turn technical fighters away from your system.


As I said before, maybe you should not be able to stop the move right away, just faster than if you let the move continue, and the more you take to press the cancel move button, takes more to recover. This way something good can result in the gameplay, since advanced player would wait just to the last momment to dodge the slow move(which is again timming), so even if the attacking player presses the cancel move button, it is open to attack for a long time.

There is something I forgot to say in my last post and it''s that this feature is intended to benefit the advanced players, not beginners, make the game able to have a longer learning time, an as a result, taking more time to get bored of it.

I think that this idea can have great appareances in a future game, but it haven''t been too developed so it''s harder to implement. Having a bonus by not using the cancel button or having other choices make the fight interesting, not just having one tactic when playing a fighting game. For me what make a fighting game fun to play is a fast changing fight, not just doing the same over an over just to win. Having choices and having to choose what to do fast is what make them good. This is just a way of giving more choices to the player.

---------------------->
Nothing in the world is the way it should be; that''s why we, the champions, exist and live for: HOPE.

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