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Joe Forhens

is it possible that REF has bugs ?

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In what context?

- Crash bugs?
- Accuracy?
- Correctness?
- Performance?

It does regularly get used by hardware manufacturers and developers alike to test for correctness. I''ve used it across many versions of DX without problem. I''ve never heard of any problems from anyone else either.

If you get hold of the DDK you can see the source code to it - all of which is written to be clear and extremely ''correct'' (i.e. all C/C++, no optimisations which might trade correctness for performance etc)

--
Simon O''Connor
Creative Asylum Ltd
www.creative-asylum.com

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I just found the device creation code in a sample code and changed it to use REF and the result was not what it was supposed to be (although it was working) . Chances are that i''d need to change some other settings too or that REF does have bugs (just like drivers)

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All the D3D samples included in the DX SDK are tested against refrast and hardware. And, most (all? I forget) are easily changed between refrast and hardware in their UI.

Where''s the origin of this sample you''re referring to?

Development Lead
Windows Graphics & Gaming Technology

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Since REF is definitive, it has no bugs. Any "oddities" it exhibits, drivers are required to reproduce. (That''s why having a reference implementation is oftentimes a bad idea.)


How appropriate. You fight like a cow.

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>> Since REF is definitive, it has no bugs

I wouldn''t even say that.

I would say that REF is an implementation written by people, and since people can make mistakes, it''s possible REF might have a bug.

However, REF has no bugs that I''m aware of.

>> Any "oddities" it exhibits, drivers are required to reproduce

I hope not.

The hardware developer usually compares the output of their simulation to REF and then rings us up if there''s a question


Development Lead
Windows Graphics & Gaming Technology

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Being a DX betatester I can safely say that there are bugs but this is why there are betatesters. But most bugs are ironed out by the time of release, there still are some though. Unfortunately for NDA reasons I cannot tell you which they are.

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quote:
Original post by Sneftel
Since REF is definitive, it has no bugs. Any "oddities" it exhibits, drivers are required to reproduce. (That''s why having a reference implementation is oftentimes a bad idea.)


How appropriate. You fight like a cow.


REF has had bugs in the past, and I''m sure their are some bugs in it now. No software (greather then a few pages of code) can be 100% bug free. Additionally, the kind of bugs in ref are typically not things which the average user would care about.

Having said that you are extremely unlikly to find a bug in REF. Sometimes applications will work correctly on Hardware and NOT on REF because hardware sometimes will gloss over bugs in your code, or it will have its own bug which covers yours up. Odds are greater then 99% the bug is in the application code.




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