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capn_midnight

pico vs emacs vs vi vs edit vs notepad

49 posts in this topic

uhmm... I don''t think he was being condescending at all. The various *nix''s are more efficient that windows for just about everything except ease of use.

I''m now a FreeBSD user (so I don''t have my head up Linus''s ass ), and I completely agree with what Kadesh said... he(she) just made a couple of hasty assumptions. It happens...

*nix is more efficient while Windows is more user-friendsly. These are pretty much established facts that are pretty hard to argue with...
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quote:
Original post by zer0wolf
*nix is more efficient while Windows is more user-friendsly. These are pretty much established facts that are pretty hard to argue with...


That seems to be a hasty assumption. Many of Windows'' user-friendly features make it more efficient. So what is more efficient to you... Double clicking on a text file, copying some text, pressing the ''x'' in the corner and your done, or the textbased *nix alternative?



James Simmons
MindEngine Development
http://medev.sourceforge.net
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actually, by more efficient I meant with your hardware resources

As far as whether highlighting with the mouse is more efficient of if keystrokes are more efficient, I think thats just a personal preference sort of thing.

---------------------------------------------------
laziness is the foundation of efficiency
retrospiral.net | llamas! | megatokyo | FreeBSD | gamedev.net

[edited by - zer0wolf on May 27, 2003 7:18:54 PM]
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quote:
Original post by Witchcraven
Keyboard combos can be faster than mouse selection


Sure. They really can. But why not have both?

In Windows you usually have the choice. You can use the mouse. This is great for beginners. They can get started RIGHT away, without need to look at some big, confusing chart with many, many different combos.

Or you can use the accelerator keys. Like CTRL-SHIFT-B for compile in VS.NET. Great for intermediate/experiences users. It speeds up the process and spares my sore albow

When I need to use E-mac or whatever, I have 4 A4 pages next to me. I need them to look up the different commands, cause if I forget one I can''t default to mouse. There is no mouse. (well I know that some emacs have this "menu"-simulation. But not the one I need to use ).

I think Linux is ok; for some stuff. But please, the usability is not very high...

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction.
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not very high usability? Linux and *BSD have an insanely high usability because of just how customizable they are. The OSs'' codes are open source, so you can hack away at it to your heart''s concept, whereas Windows obviously is not.

Don''t get me wrong, I''m a fresh convert to FreeBSD, but I still have my Win2k for a number of purposes... namely game development with DirectX!

---------------------------------------------------
laziness is the foundation of efficiency
retrospiral.net | llamas! | megatokyo | FreeBSD | gamedev.net
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quote:
Original post by zer0wolf
not very high usability? Linux and *BSD have an insanely high usability because of just how customizable they are. The OSs' codes are open source, so you can hack away at it to your heart's concept, whereas Windows obviously is not.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fresh convert to FreeBSD, but I still have my Win2k for a number of purposes... namely game development with DirectX!



All right. Maybe I used the term "usability" differently then. I mean usability in the sense of user-frindliness. Usability as in a system that is easy to learn and remember.

Linux may be flekxible. I agree on that. But it's not easy to learn.

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction.

[edited by - rohde on May 27, 2003 7:39:23 PM]
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quote:
Original post by Arild Fines
Nothing important


For someone who insults me for being "condescending" and thinking everyone who uses Windows is "retarted" (oh the irony), you yourself are pretty insulting and juvenile.

Anyway, I suggest you reread what I wrote because I''m not going to correct your mistakes.

Okay, maybe a little.

Points 3, 4, 5 are still irrelevant. Point 3 is flat wrong. I''d give you the answer but your opinion of me wouldn''t change. I''m not in the habit of helping closed minded fools. Point 4 is still a problem with you using a UNIX tool in Windows with other Windows tools. Point 5 is still a problem with you using someone else''s computer and not vim. Why are you coding on someone else''s computer anyway???

I don''t understand the problem with point 1. Even if the cursor doesn''t follow, you''re not hitting any extra keys if does (okay, maybe in the odd case of the beginning or end of file where page up/down would make vim forget which line on the screen you were on, I don''t consider that a huge loss). If you''re really really intent on not losing that precious cursor position, :split, ctrl-w j, scroll, :q! .

I was trying to make a small joke about being crippled with Windows. I have never had a problem keeping files organized with *nix. I have had a number of problems wtih organizing things in Windows. It''s all a matter of what you''re familiar with. In this case, it boils down to using UNIX stuff in Windows.

For the record, I don''t believe anyone is stupid because of choosing Windows. Indeed, most people shouldn''t need to take the time to learn *nix because it wouldn''t provide much value to them. My parents don''t care that copying files could take only seconds in Linux or that they can recompile their kernel for more performance. They want to *click click click* and be done. For computer professionals however, I believe *nix provides a number of benefits. First of all being a broadened experience. "If you only have a hammer, everything looks like nail" and all that. Furthermore, I believe that learning *nix provides you with a better understanding your computer. Something akin to learning assembly gives you a better understanding of C and C++.

As for driving people away from Linux, on the contrary, I''ve personally helped several people learn Linux. I don''t push and I don''t assume it''s a cure all for their computer problems. If you''re interested in why I thought they could use Linux: 2 wanted to learn programming (C and Perl), 3 wanted to run servers, and the rest were just interested in learning, which I admire.

However, I do insult Windows itself on a regular basis. After using Linux for close to 4 years now, everytime I go back to Windows is just a horrible experience. Comparing Windows design decisions to UNIX ones is just so hilarious. Drive letters (not fixed to my satisfaction in 2k/XP), Explorer''s numerous UI abominations, ridiculously long folder names (C:\Documents and Settings and Options and Files and Your Neighbors Cat\Andrew), ugly ass themes that can''t change (StyleXP is timed shareware and the free one broke with the latest service pack; why should I have to hack this anyway? f''ing ridiculous). Overall, Windows is now one huge joke for me so pardon me while I laugh my ass off at its incompetence.
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I am not happy with any OS at the moment. The closest thing is OS X, but aqua is not open source
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I prefer Emacs when booted into Linux (curses version, not that X-Emacs crap ) and Ultra-Edit when booted into Windows. Both of them support the syntax highlighting I so enjoy
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Well, I am a big Notepad fan when using Windows, but recently I''ve been doing a lot of work with Linux, mostly with KWrite and vi (I''m starting to really like vi, especially when I get errors like ''KDEInit cannot launch KWrite'').

|.dev-c++.|.the gimp.|.seti@home.|.dbpoweramp.|.torn.|.=w=.|
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I generally tend to always come back to emacs, even after I try ide, or any other fancy coding environment, I will still tend to use emacs at some point during the course of my project. Although that could also be because 1. I hate vi 2. Our computers here that I ssh into run on solaris. So I will work remotely on CS machines to see if I can get away with something on CC(solaris C++ compiler). That and I don''t use windows on any of the computers I own. That and in spite of the steep learning curve, I have used it for about 1 year, and actually have come to grow fond of how evil it is.
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Its all about vi. I started using it last year and had a lot of roblems trying to figure out what the commands were but now I do all of my coding in vi. Word just cant do coding because it thinks everything is misspelled, I hate notepad and wordpad with a passion and edit just doesnt have enough features. At first I was skeptical about vi but now being able to delete, copy or paste multiple lines without having to use the mouse is a breeze. In fact I keep having problems where I treat word as vi and keep hitting esc to stop typing or i to insert text.

"I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
--Voltaire
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Textpad is very good.

I wrote three different text editors in three different languages over the weekend. Using homebrew solutions is fun.
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vi is weird. Especially when you have never used it before.

btw, emacs owns you all. Remeber that contract you signed when you were born? The one they have you sign with a footprint? Yeah. You just gave them your soul. Emacs is like that.
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quote:
Original post by superpig
copy con

but seriously I use nano and vi quite a lot, along with gEdit; under windows, usually notepad (or MSVC - notepad can't handle some EOL characters for some reason).

Superpig
- saving pigs from untimely fates, and when he's not doing that, runs The Binary Refinery.


Had a good laugh with copy con. Reminds me of edlin.

For what it's worth I use vi mostly.

[edited by - BeerNutts on May 28, 2003 5:46:46 PM]
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quote:
Original post by capn_midnight
my answer is encoded somewherez in my message.

The encoded answer is PICO.

I use mostly Emacs.

The only problem I have is that the Emacs commands are so ingrained into my brain now, that I automatically try to use them with other editors as well. Usually with pretty weird results.
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OH TEH NOS!!!

I just found out that what I was using, what I though was vi, was actually vim! OH NOS!

That''s cool though, as long as it uses the same syntax. I just downloaded gvim for Windows, to try it out.
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quote:
Original post by Sandman
I''d just like to say that emacs is horrible, or at least that version of emacs (is it X-emacs or something) that involves all those stupid mouse+keyboard combination shortcuts.



That''s both of them. emacs and X-emacs both have about 15 million mouse+ctrl+alt+whicheverelsekey commands. Freaky...




[Cyberdrek | the last true sorcerer | Spirit Mage - mutedfaith.com][ Administrator TheLinuxForum.tk]
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quote:
Original post by mr_dejao
I prefer Emacs when booted into Linux (curses version, not that X-Emacs crap ) and Ultra-Edit when booted into Windows. Both of them support the syntax highlighting I so enjoy


For your info, vim has highlighting too...



[Cyberdrek | the last true sorcerer | Spirit Mage - mutedfaith.com][ Administrator TheLinuxForum.tk]
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I like notepad on Windows.
On Linux, I like Pico, because I secure shell into a university server to use Linux.
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