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uncutno

Where to fly a paper plane?

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Hello! Say that you have a paper-plane simulator game, where you can fold paper-planes, and fly them (with simple (but rather realistic :-) ) air simulation). Where would you like to fly, and what would you like to do with your virtual paper-plane? Say that the planes have flaps, and can be controled mid-air, and that the simulation is in full 3D... My ideas: 1: Fly as long as posible (time or distance) in different places... (no air-fans to lift you up, only a distance messurer or a time messurer) (possible to have mulitplayer) 2: Fly as fast as possible form A to B in different places.. (with thing in the way)... and so on... (possible to have mulitplayer(multiplayer as in AI or human oponents)) and air-fans) 3: More level type game, where you have to finish a level, to get to the next one... (something like to old GLIDER for mac) mayby inside a house, where you fly from room to room (singleplayer i think) 4: Paperplane deathmatch, where you have to stay as long as posible in the air, and where it is legal to crash other players to the ground... The nature of paperplanes is the fact that they dont fly for a wery long time, so i want a game to last maybe 15-30 seconds.. ? Any ideas??? what do you think about this game ideea??? (My english is bad, because im not english) -Anders-Oredsson-Norway-

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Guest Anonymous Poster
I''d love to throw a paper airplane off the empire state building.

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:-) sorry, a whole city would be to big... or maybe not?
well, what would be the point? how can you win a game where you throw a paper plane off the empire state building?
I agree that big would be fun!

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how about flying across office cubicles where employees fire rubber bands at you?

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Estok:
Great idea!
levels with people! :-) i guess this could work with stay as long as possible in the air, and the level gameplay...
you could have a: "hit the teacher" game, where the students fires rubber bands at you...???
i add people with rubberbands to my list!

the greatest thing would be to have them all, but then i need to make a world, where all these gameplays could fitt...

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There have been a few games about paper airplanes in the past. I remember playing an old 2D one (I don''t remember the name.) I''m not sure if it has been done in 3D. It would be cool if the physics depended on the actual plane design.

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Impossible:
the name of the old 2D is GLIDER... and its for mac.. (mayby there are more then one..)

The plan was that the physics would depend on how you fold your plane... (simple, but design changes, will change the way the plane fly)

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Ahh, but the double delta should win just about every time. Unless you aren''t allowed to cut the paper at any point - a double delta wing planform requires cutting... (think SAAB Drakken).

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Cahaan: thanks!

Talyssan:
you are alowed to cut and glue, and the player need to stear the plane also, so plane design is not the only thing that matter... i know that there is a problem with the ultimate paper plane, but thats why i want to have different gameplay types...
speed
distance
manuverbility
and other stuff...
i dont think that the double delta will be best in all of these....
i think that you will start with the "normal" paperplane, but you get a "garage" where you can modify it, or create new once... (opposit to engine-turbo, super-brakes and super-dampers(read: most car race games).. paper and glue is on the house :-) )

I will create a so realistic simulation as possible (in how the plane fly), so it wont be easy to fly your plane, the angle against the air must be perfect (to get max distance)... also, flaps dont have any effect if the plane is in the wrong angle against movement angle, so its going to be hard to make your plane fly a great distance... (thats why i want to have air fans in games where distance not is the goal....)
have you played Delux Ski Jumper??? i want some of that gameplay into my game (but not only that, and longer rides :-) )
I was thinking about creating a spring system from the paper model, and simulate like 100 vectors for the plane, but the simplest system i could think of, would need 3-8 crossings per vector, and 3-8 normalisations of vectors, and some angle messuring and other stuff, so im going to do it simpler....
by finding out how the air pushes on each triangle, and how it is devided on the 3 corners... i also want to create some sort of air flow volume (simple), so that two wings right abow each other dont give the double effect....
im also going to make the edges of the paper (because a virtual triangle often is 0 m thick) air resistant... this way, the dart will go faster then the swalow.. (eaven if all planes are aligned to the airstream)....
the problem with this solution is that the paper dont bend, so if you create a plane witch just is a unfolded paper, it will stay flatt.. :-)
any ideas?

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my mum taut me how to makea paper plane caled a siumple stunt!@
it has a veerrty complex desine and is not for beginers howver! it is great at maneuvering@ and flying loing disatance!
well the plane goes l;iek this: first get as piece of white paperr then flod it in halg then unfold it in half then make a arrow at the front by folding it then turn the arow backwrads then folsd over the croners to make a stuby shape then fold the arow back agauin then fold in half then make the wings asnd there yuo hasve it! a prefect simpel stunt paper plane!
yuo shoud have this in yuor game poppet! it will greatotly enhansce the realism!

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How about a ''factory'' type level? You know, with the crushing, grinding, swinging, jerking machinery being hazards. Top it off with that lame industrial music.


"Only dead shrimp go with the flow."

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Brien Shrimp:
That would be cool, with alot of moving things... but then i ask you: what should the goal be? (its not going to be like flying an ordenary plane, because it got no engine, and the wings are not curved) I agree that it would be cool, but i have a problem with how it would fit with a paper-plane-simulator :-)

Should i:
1: create a fun action ,but not realistic paper-plane-game,
(better for levels with missions and stuff... kinda like tony hawk pro 4... )
or,
2: create as realistic as posible paper-plane-simulator?
maybe more original, and i have to stay with the problem that they dont fly for a wery long time... (short gameplay.. goal is to stear better, and fold better...)

i think there are alot of the first one type of game, but what do you think?


Pipo DeClown:
Since folding the plane will be 20-30% of the game, it will be possible to fold anything from the beginning, but im thinking about rewards for winning, and i agree that instructions on how to fold great planes would be nice... (or maybe you get a ready folded plane?) the folder-editor will have a history list, so that you can fold and unfold all the planes you got.. (this will prevent people from building impossible planes outside the game, the planes are folded each time...) Any other type of reward? i want level-unlocking, and plane unlocking... anything else?

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Bonusses that you can get:

Bigger papers, or other forms of paper. You start with the basic small memoblock square, and end up with A0 (square meter :D ).

And paper weight. Start with the basic paper, and add in lighter paper and heavier paper. Certainly in multiplayer heavy paper is GREAT to have!

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quote:
Original post by uncutno
Should i:
1: create a fun action ,but not realistic paper-plane-game,
(better for levels with missions and stuff... kinda like tony hawk pro 4... )
or,
2: create as realistic as posible paper-plane-simulator?
maybe more original, and i have to stay with the problem that they dont fly for a wery long time... (short gameplay.. goal is to stear better, and fold better...)



i would like to see a more realistic one.
apart from a good plane-editor, the "game" should feature many areas to fly, where i also would prefer life-near ones (although one or two fun-areas wouldn''t be too bad ), like a hilly landscape, a city with many skyscrapers and so on. than make the environment (wind etc.) highly adjustable and we got a fine paper plane simulater :D

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thanks to all of you...

PouyaCat:
the size of the paper, will not change anything...
mayby in a multiplayer, but then i have to take the "fun-way" of the game. Sould not everybody start out the same in a multiplayer game? if so, you can only use your A4s in multiplayer, and so bigger planes would not make a difference..
i hope you disagree, and tell me why! :-)

paper weight is a good idea, but this would also only be usable (the heavyer paper) in speed competittions and in multiplayer... and i had to make the "fun-way" version in multiplayer, or else the heavy planes would just fly for a shorter time...

maximAL:
Nice ideas, but i dont know if this will be a ms-flight-simulator with paperplanes game... :-) i want it to be more sitt down and play for 2 minutes game(i hope you understand what i mean) :-) and i have a question for you: what should be the goal, how do you win this game?





anyone else?

[edited by - uncutno on June 1, 2003 3:35:25 PM]

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This is an excellent idea, quite original and potentially very fun for all age groups.

I like the idea of having different types of paper, especially. Lightweight paper could be better for Lift, since light paper has a greater Lift-to-Weight ratio, but would be slower than heavier paper. This would be useful for challenges involving staying in the air longer. Heavier paper is best for speed and distance.

Also, remember that weights have a huge bearing on the performance of the plane -- a plane weighted more centrally is going to have more Lift but not as much velocity, and a weight placed to far back on the plane is going to prevent the thing from flying at all. A weight on the tip of the plane is great for distance and speed but causes the plane to go into a nosedive more rapidly. It would be awesome if you could change the weight position in mid-flight on some maps.

Another thing you may want to consider is the plane''s launch -- Launch Angle and Launch Speed/Power is going to have a significant affect on the planes behavior -- some planes are best launched straight forward with a poweful launch, other planes do best with a gentler upward-angled launch. Some stunt planes actually do their best work when launched at a downward angle.

Speaking of which, a Stuntmatch would be really cool! Basically it would be a points match, to see which player can achieve the highest number of cool stunts. This is something I would measure in terms of Rolls, Loops, Height Variations, and so forth -- in other words, if a plane is rolling on its Z axis then the greater the degree of the Roll, the higher the score for that stunt. If the plane suddenly drops vertically then continues flying (due to mid-flight weight manipulations for example) a score bonus is given relative to the height difference. These are just examples of course and would be difficult to program but would make for some very fun competitions.

I also liked your ideas about making actual levels with obstacles and electric fans and so forth. At the place where I work we have these circular air conditioning vents all over the floor that have little fins inside which causes the air to come out in a vertical vortex, like a tube-shaped tornado. Something like this could grab the plane and spin it on its Y axis, turning the plane if it was going fast, or actually spinning it completely out of control if it was going too slow. If you have a place with lots of ordinary electric fans, the air currents can be used to alter the planes'' trajectory -- or just knock it out of the air if the player doesn''t plan for those currents.

Sorry this post is so long and confusing, you just got my brain going on this one.

****************************************

Brian Lacy
ForeverDream Studios

Comments? Questions? Curious?
brian@foreverdreamstudios.com

"I create. Therefore I am."

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Paper size is EXTREMELY important. The amount of paper used determines the overall weight of the aircraft, but also the amount of wingspan it can have.

Making a tiny memoblock paper fly far is hard. Taking bigger papers, up to A4, makes it easier. Above A4, it''s a real challenge to make something that can fly (I made it to A2, but that was a hulk).

As for the weight; as has been mentioned, heavier paper flies faster yet doesn''t stay in the air as long as light paper. It''s all nice to be able to factor in.

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I was thinking that it might be fun to have a stunt throw type of game, where you might have a series of hoops for the plane to move through. The trick would be that the flaps would be disabled for this setup, so you would only have the plane design and throw to make the stunt work.

Just an idea

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Yeah and good luck with your air flow simulation, you ARE going to need it

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GREAT! :-) alot of posts!

irbrian:
Great idea! 10 points to you! a stunt game! (did not think about that)... that would be a great game! Im going to use that! :-) mayby base the whole game on that.... (and the extra: fly of the "empire state building" level! (points to AP)

about the weight position:
To get the right weight position, is half of the fold chalange... thats why some planes fly noce, and some fly bad :-)
so im not going to use that...

and i agree that paperweight should be possible!

In the folder you are going to cut and glue, so creating a smaler plane should be possible! (since A4 is the standard (at least in Norway) i think you have to go from there...

i have also thought about how to launch the plane... a virtual hand, with a click at the right time thing i think would work nicely!

PouyaCat:
(read ansver to irbrian on the paper size problem)... i dont think i want people to have to choose the size, much better if all got the same start, and the folding is everything that matters! (also paper weight :-) )....

Boglin:
great idea also! but i think this would not be as fun as controling the plane yourselfe.. should be easy to throw in later in the game, so ill try it when the time comes!

AP:
Im currently twisting my brain on this one... i have some ideas on how to do it, and sinze you only have 5-15 different planes in a paper plane, it should be ok to use alot of CPU cycles on this problem... :-) thanks for the supportive tone!

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