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# What i need to make some game development

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Hey, i would like to know what are the theories in math and physic that i should know before starting some game programming. I never really take a high degree in math and physics so if you can give me some sites to learn those stuff i would be gratefull.

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First you have to answere the question "how mach physics do you mant".
But there are some basics you will need, you need to understand vectors and calculations with them, thats nearly all math you need for the physics thing and you need some additional knowledge about matrices for the graphics.
About phisics you must know about the topic so called mechanics, with translation and rotation, how a body with a mass moves when a force is applied. Some basic equavation (??? is that the right english word???)
I mean you have to know that F = m * a

F is the force
m = mass
a = acceleration
so if you have the mass and the force you can get the acceleration

and for moving
s = (1/2)*a*t² + v*t + s0
v = a*t + v0

s = way
s0= way befor time passed
t = time that has passed
v = vellocity
v0= vellocity before time has pased

here
http://nehe.gamedev.net/data/gametuts/gametut.asp?lesson=02
you get something for vectors and matrices and NeHe has also tutorials for OpenGL
Nehe him self touches physics in his Tutorial 39 and 40

http://www.xs4all.nl/~johanw/contents.html
the first topic about mechanic could be helpful but you have to know what you want of it, mostly gravityforces, friction and rotation is a good thing, collosions as well.

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Sorry, but without an academic degree in math or CS or software engineering you will never be able to code real games.
And don''t listen to anyone who tells you that you will.

//--SEGA--RULES--

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I don''t agree with xxx_shinobi''s comment. There are many types of games that don''t require extensive math. For example, board games, 2D puzzle games, and even some types of 2D action games.

For 3D games, you will definitely need more math. Although you definitely can make games without a degree, or even formal education in 3D math, you will find it difficult to make a 3D game unless you have a VERY strong understanding of 3D math and geometry.

I actually would suggest that you do not try to create a 3D game until you have more experience with basic game programming. Try to recreate some of the old classic 2D games, such as Pac-Man and breakout. Start simple, finish a project, learn how to write efficient and well-structured code. Learn how to develop some simple artwork for games, and learn how to display that artwork in 2D. You will be much less frustrated if you start with a simple project.

Graham Rhodes
Senior Scientist
Applied Research Associates, Inc.

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Also, people DO learn things outside of school. I never took any linear algebra, but I''ve been doing stuff w/covariance matrices and eigenvectors/values that I learned on my own. It''s amazing how many game developers have no degrees in CS/Engineering.

I agree with grhodes...Try something 2D and simple first. It''s much less of a headache, much easier to finish, and that''ll get you into a positive reinforcement loop, knowing that you''ve finished one.

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Drilian, grhodes_at_work, give the guy motivation to get a degree, don''t bullshit his brain.Without math/physics/coding at academic level you wan''t get real understending of how things works. It will be fake. It''s like to invent a car before wheel.

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This thread is very black and white, but if I had to choose one path, I would have to agree with Shinobi on this one...

Basic physics is fine, but with serious knowledge, you will be able to do simple physics even better, plus you will be able to implement better concepts all together.

Of course until you get a degree, by all means muck-around with code, even if it''s face physics.

www.cppnow.com

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quote:
Original post by xxx_shinobi
Sorry, but without an academic degree in math or CS or software engineering you will never be able to code real games.
And don''t listen to anyone who tells you that you will.

//--SEGA--RULES--

Sorry, but you are dead wrong. Depending on school to learn anything is a bad habit to get into, and there is no reason someone can''t teach themselves math and physics w/o going into a classroom. Also, with the pace of technology, learning things on your own is the only way you can keep up in the game dev. world since many things related to game dev. are not even covered in school.

back on topic, if you want to program game engines that''s where your knowledge of math and physics really comes into play. game programming itself depends more upon structure and organization than it does on math and physics, although you may still need to understand some concepts to work with the engine.

As for what you need to know:
important -> algebra, trig., linear algebra
calculus is not used too much, but it''s good to know in case you stumble upon something that requires it.
if your working on a 2d game you may or may not use any linear algebra, depending on how advanced it is.

For physics you need to know about projectile physics. Beyond this it depends on what your doing.

I don''t know any links for physics, but www.sosmath.com has always helped me with math. Also check out the articles right here on gamedev, as well as on www.gamasutra.com.

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Dear directrix, you make me laugh with your fantasy about studing all by your own. First of all, no one in the REAL game industry will even talk to you without at least B.Sc.

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quote:
Original post by Drilian
Also, people DO learn things outside of school. I never took any linear algebra, but I''ve been doing stuff w/covariance matrices and eigenvectors/values that I learned on my own. It''s amazing how many game developers have no degrees in CS/Engineering.

I agree with grhodes...Try something 2D and simple first. It''s much less of a headache, much easier to finish, and that''ll get you into a positive reinforcement loop, knowing that you''ve finished one.

it is not amazing it is a shame

i am from germany

we can choose which courses we want to do for the finals 2 years before the finals

for example we have 2 math courses
one in depth and one for noobs *:D*

and even in the in depth course we don t even touch matrices although you need it all the time when you are at the UNI

thats a shame and know what? our ministers complain about the bad math degrees in our country

all we do is some vector and infini*infinitesimal calculations*

and the biggest topic in math is probability calculation aka stochastic

first of all in order to be good in stochastic you need to check it you can reduce it to
a) either check it and get all points
b) dont waste your time with checking it out

and at the UNI you hardly need stochastik

one should execute these dumb education ministers

about vector geometry i knew everything about it before we learned it in school rofl

my teacher ignored me after some time cause i always knew the solution before the rest started thinking about it

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xxx_shinobi: So I take it John Carmack or Will Wright aren''t good enough to be in the "REAL" games industry and can''t code "real" games (interesting how these fake games are some of the best selling of all time) because they don''t have degrees?

Perhaps they are exceptions rather than rules, but it is possible to get a programming job in the industry (or any job for that matter) without a degree. A lot of companies (Blizzard for example) don''t require it, although it''s obviously a benefit, and some companies (like EA) do require it, so really it depends on the developer. There are a lot of things that you won''t learn from just doing course work even at the best Universities that are very useful in game development and software development in general. I''m not saying it''s a bad idea to get a degree though, the best idea is to do both, self study and school. With a degree along it will be very hard to get a job, but you need to do some extremely impressive stuff to get a job without a degree. The combination of a degree and working on personal projects and study is the best path to getting a job in the industry.

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Physics is definitely important. As for what topics, you should start with high school kinematics. You might be able to know these things from common sense, but being able to describe them with the proper notation/terms will greatly help you when you model physics into your games. For example a common notation for speed would be dx.

Next as someone pointed out you should do some topics in mechanics. U don''t really need quantum mechanics or anything like that unless ur writing code about particles tunneling through stuff

But as long as you have the basics (high school kinematics) you will be quick to learn these more bizzare topics/concepts when u need to.

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If you live in usa, go to digipen school.Its your sraight ticket to the game industry. And I do agree that a normal degree in math/cs will not cover all the neccecary subjects, but it will cover the most important ones (math/phys/algoritmica). Your job will be only to apply nollege you gained in university in game dev.

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quote:
Original post by xxx_shinobi
If you live in usa, go to digipen school.Its your sraight ticket to the game industry. And I do agree that a normal degree in math/cs will not cover all the neccecary subjects, but it will cover the most important ones (math/phys/algoritmica). Your job will be only to apply nollege you gained in university in game dev.

Funny how you said you needed a university degree earlier, and now you say Digipen will get him there... At Digipen you don''t get a BSc. I think they give an associates degree at best.

You don''t need to go to school to learn any of this stuff. You can learn it all by your lonesome, and there is a lot of information out there to help you do it. 3D, 2D, and superstrings. If you''re really serious about getting in to game development, start writing code. Lots of it.

I would also like to add that plenty of people have studied, and do study, theory by themselfs, just for kicks. *cough*Einstein*cough*..

You don''t have to go to University. You life may be easier if you do, but not neccesarily.

Good luck,
Will

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Just curious. Why doesn't everyone say if they went to university or not in these discussions. It would be interesting to see how many people without degrees think they are unimportant, compared to the number of people who actually have one and say it is unimportant. It's always been my opinion that people without degrees are the majority of the people who say they are unnecessary. Mostly out of some sort of self pep-talk or something. There is a lot more to getting a degree than just learning something you could teach yourself out of a book, and I think that's what people without degrees don't understand. I could be wrong tho. Just curious.

Marcus

Edit: Forgot a period

-----------------------------------------------------
Marcus Hays
www.phrenicgames.com

[edited by - mhays on May 29, 2003 11:06:33 AM]

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You morron, digipen do have B.Sc program wich includes at least 10~15 math courses and at least 3 physics.
www.digipen.edu

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quote:
Original post by mhays
It''s always been my opinion that people without degrees are the majority of the people who say they are unnecessary. Mostly out of some sort of self pep-talk or something. There is a lot more to getting a degree than just learning something you could teach yourself out of a book

You could say the same about people with degrees; that they are giving themselfs a pep-talk by saying that they are neccessary.

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BCS, Carleton U, Ottawa.

Before I received my degree, I though I didn''t need one to succeed. Now that I do have one, I think that it''s necessary to enjoy a better quality of life. I believe you have a much better opportunity to succeed if you complete a degree. Otherwise you will be treated as someone who only completed "high school", which anyone can do.

I don''t know, but I imagine I would feel embarrased to tell my children (or my girlfriend), "... my education? oh yes, I got as far as completing high school.".

For those of you who actually compare themselves to Carmack, you are in for a life-long surprise, because in life there are always exceptions. There is only one person like him, and that''s HIM. So in our lifetimes, he will always be around and you will never be able to outperform his knowledge, and hence become the next Carmack.

Just my 2 cents.

www.cppnow.com

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The problem with your argument, is that people with degrees have had one and have also not had one. So they can guage the benifit, whereas a person with none have no basis of comparison.

M

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quote:
Original post by superdeveloper
For those of you who actually compare themselves to Carmack, you are in for a life-long surprise, because in life there are always exceptions. There is only one person like him, and that''s HIM. So in our lifetimes, he will always be around and you will never be able to outperform his knowledge, and hence become the next Carmack.

Hehe, I wasn''t comparing myself or anyone else to Carmack in anyway. I''m just saying that there are people, even very influential and successful people, in the game industry that do not have degrees. Perhaps they are exceptions, but that doesn''t mean it''s impossible to get a job without a degree, and it definitely doesn''t mean you have to be Carmack. I''ve heard of game developers that don''t even have highschool degrees (which is more rare, but it is possible.) In the end your capablities, not how much school you completely, are important to the company. There are many people who learn better in school, and others that learn better by themselves. After a few years in the industry your experience is what matters anyway, not your education.

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...experience, and more importanly WHO you know

I am working with a guy who get paid more than I do, and does not have a degree.

www.cppnow.com

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BCS, Ohio State University

To say a person can''t learn how to program without a degree is just nonsense. Will it make certain aspects of programming easier to understand, yes. Will it be a benefit when you go to get a job, yes. Does that mean a person who is contemplating learning game programming should wait to get started until they go to school, NO! There is no such thing as a wrong time to learn something new. Who knows, maybe by trying it out BEFORE he commits him/herself to school, they may realize it isn''t what they want to do after all and find another subject to study. Point is, in response to the original poster, get yourself a book to teach you the basics of whatever language you want to use. READ THE BOOK. If you are still interested after that, you will no doubt have a better idea of where you want to go with your programming. Good luck.

Grellin CGP

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Well said Grellin.

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quote:
Original post by xxx_shinobi
Dear directrix, you make me laugh with your fantasy about studing all by your own. First of all, no one in the REAL game industry will even talk to you without at least B.Sc.

Of course, I haven't read page 2 yet, but this made me stop
Im just 17, 2nd year of college (in England), with no plans to go to university. Theres a local software developer saying my CV is "very impressive" right now, and I've got a meeting lined up.....

To quote a different post by yourself,
quote:
I have two more years to complite my B.Sc in software engineering, and I realy hope to get in console game programming industry

...is this why you're being so forceful with your view? Perhaps you think it's unfair others might not have to put in all the work.

EDIT: and what makes you think people dont study alone? That's how I learnt everything I know about programming, game development, even 3d math! In fact I think it's better to have an active approach to this sort of thing...

ALSO! Quite simply, people who are IN the industry are disagreeing with you.

-K

--sorry it's so personal--

[edited by - kieren_j on May 30, 2003 5:02:22 AM]

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quote:
Original post by xxx_shinobi
You morron, digipen do have B.Sc program wich includes at least 10~15 math courses and at least 3 physics.
www.digipen.edu

Again, if your argument is so good, you don''t have to call people morons

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